Thread: Russia Threatens PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE AGAINST NATO Over Missile Defense

Originally Posted by Grokmaster

as well your desperate nedd to keep moving the goalposts

You're accusing me of moving goalposts?

Let's just do a quick recap:

You claim that we are immune to nuclear attack because of AEGIS. I pointed out the failings of that system. You then moved the goalposts to:

Claiming that the Ground Based Midcourse System is a trump card. I pointed out that we only have 30 interceptors. You then moved the goalposts to:

Claiming that Russian equipment was flawed and that the Russians missiles would fail on launch. I asked you to prove that assertion. Instead you deflected by moving the goalposts to:

Now claiming that we would simply launch a strike by stealth bombers on them. I have pointed out that we only have 20 B-2's. Let's see where you move the goalposts to next, shall we.

BTW, we have never used the B-2 in airspace protected by an integrated air defense network protected by phased array radars. Our own allies have stated in the past that they have detected the B-2, and while they haven't achieved a lock on, it would only take getting a single fighter into the area to shoot them down.

Originally Posted by Questerr

The Russians don't have to elude our defenses. How many times do I have to prove this?

They'd simply overwhelm them. We have 30 interceptors. They have hundreds of ICBMs and over a thousand warheads. We could stop 30 of them (assuming a 100% fire to kill ratio which is absurd) but they would still annihilate us.

BTW, the US is NOT the only country to have the ability to shoot down orbital targets. The Chinese can too. And the Russians demonstrated ASAT missiles in the 1970's.

The Russians would be able to retaliate because missiles have a hang time. It takes a half an hour to strike Russia from the US. They would detect our launches and fire back while our missiles are in the air.

But I didnt expect you to know that because, if nothing else, this thread has proven that you are woefully ignorant on this subject and lack the wherewithal to have an opinion worth listening to.

PLease cite the verified proof of the Chinese/Russians shooting down targets at orbital speed (17,000 mph) in the stratospher...outside of whatever comic book is your reference.

Originally Posted by Grokmaster

PLease cite the verified proof of the Chinese/Russians shooting down targets at orbital speed (17,000 mph) in the stratospher...outside of whatever comic book is your reference.

The Federation of American Scientists is a comic book? Who knew? http://www.fas.org/spp/guide/russia/...sat/index.html

Here's another. It shows that the Russian ASAT capability dates to the 1960's.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/is.html


Oh, and here is the Chinese ASAT launch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Ch...e_missile_test

What goalpost are you moving to next?

Originally Posted by kenrichaed

They of course will never go to war but it does sound like they are calling out Obama and forcing his hand. Should be interesting to watch how this unfolds.

The silence from the administration is deafening. He's letting his Russian buddies push us around and look weak.

Originally Posted by leftlegmoderate

It seems like this is the 2nd or 3rd such warning over the last couple years concerning the missile shield. Russia has been quite bold concerning Western involvement in Syria. IMO, it's chest thumping, but I wager that Russia also has a breaking point, at which they'll be ready to act. Despite the long lived, poor economic state of Russia, they're still a very serious threat.

It's hard to say whether or not Russia really needs to be concerned about the European missile shield. But if you were to switch thing around a little... say Russia started putting launch sites all over Mexico and further south... well, we'd be quite alarmed, regardless of the rationale.

This might be an issue best resolved through compromise.

It would best be solved with some backbone.

Originally Posted by thediplomat2.0

Feeding Russian Brinksmanship is not a worthwhile strategy.

No blinking is, he should have Secretary Clinton go to the Russian ambassador with a message, that ANY attack on a US asset will be met with a retaliatory attack on a similar Russian asset in an foreign country, one they cannot afford to replace while we stand ready to immediately replace any part of our missile defense system taken out of action.

Originally Posted by Questerr

You're accusing me of moving goalposts?

Let's just do a quick recap:

You claim that we are immune to nuclear attack because of AEGIS. I pointed out the failings of that system. You then moved the goalposts to:

Claiming that the Ground Based Midcourse System is a trump card. I pointed out that we only have 30 interceptors. You then moved the goalposts to:

Claiming that Russian equipment was flawed and that the Russians missiles would fail on launch. I asked you to prove that assertion. Instead you deflected by moving the goalposts to:

Now claiming that we would simply launch a strike by stealth bombers on them. I have pointed out that we only have 20 B-2's. Let's see where you move the goalposts to next, shall we.

BTW, we have never used the B-2 in airspace protected by an integrated air defense network protected by phased array radars. Our own allies have stated in the past that they have detected the B-2, and while they haven't achieved a lock on, it would only take getting a single fighter into the area to shoot them down.

Now, let ME "do a quick recap':

1. cited the PROVEN ACCURACY and STRAOSPHERIC RANGE of the Aegis system; you cited your OWN SPECULATION about the Russian's strategic capabilites.
Please cite the CHinese ,Russians or ANYONE doing the same thing: small target (ICBM SIZE), orbital speed (17,000+ mph), a SINGLE MISSILE, FROM A MOVING VESSEL.
We won't hold our breath waiting...

2. I ,correctly pointed out that Russians build JUNK. That I need to "prove" that to you, highlights your "Cliff's Notes" depth of knowlegde of this topic, but, if I have to take the horse to the water...:



One of the most spectacular sky shows in recent history took place shortly before dawn this past 9 December over northern Norway. Hundreds of witnesses -- many of them fortuitously equipped with the latest in camcorder technology -- stared in amazement at a bright white spiral cloud spinning silently in the eastern sky.

Before being identified as what it was -- a Russian military missile test -- the apparition was variously hailed a UFO, a cosmic wormhole, a divine vision, a mishap caused by the newly operational Large Hadron Collider, and some nefarious ionospheric engineering by the notorious High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program antennas.

At the Russian Ministry of Defense, in Moscow, one could easily forgive officials for wishing that one of those explanations were correct. That's because the reality was a glaring advertisement for what has become the greatest aerospace engineering crisis of the Russian government: the disaster-ridden ,"trouble-plagued" would be an understatement. military missile called Bulava [accent on the middle syllable]. Designed to be the next-generation submarine-launched intercontinental ballistic missile ICBM, Bulava has had 11 test flights since 2005 -- and has failed most of them, including the last three in a row .


http://news.discovery.com/space/russ...ay-spiral.html


Warn us all again about the "imminent threat" from "Russian Military Technology", which is an OXYMORON, to the sentient of the planet.

3.The B2A has ALREADY DEFEATED "PHASED ARRAY RADAR"..in COMBAT. Where have you been?

The F35, F22,and B2018(will) all also defeat pahsed array radar, not to mention that we also deploy AWACS when we come to kick your ass, as well, which scramble your radar.

Come on, make up some more "Mighty Russians" bullcrap; this is fun...we'd "glaze" Russia, while theyu still were sleeping off the nightly hangovers...

Originally Posted by Grokmaster

1. cited the PROVEN ACCURACY and STRAOSPHERIC RANGE of the Aegis system; you cited your OWN SPECULATION about the Russian's strategic capabilites.

My own speculation? I posted links. And again, the AEGIS system is useless for shooting down orbital objects unless it is under their orbital path. How are we going to get AEGIS ships into the Arctic Circle again?

Originally Posted by Grokmaster

http://news.discovery.com/space/russ...ay-spiral.html

OMG! You're telling me that a prototype weapon that is still in the development phase has failures? What?!? When has that ever happened in history?

You have evidence of the failure rate of any of their actual developed weapons?

Originally Posted by Grokmaster

The B2A has ALREADY DEFEATED "PHASED ARRAY RADAR"..in COMBAT. Where have you been?

Where was that exactly? Iraq, Serbia, and Afghanistan all had radar systems dating from the 1960's.

Originally Posted by Grokmaster

The F35, F22,and B2018(will) all also defeat pahsed array radar, not to mention that we also deploy AWACS when we come to kick your ass, as well, which scramble your radar.

Yep. We should deploy jamming craft. That wouldn't telegraph our attack or anything.

I tell you what, you should go back to playing Command and Conquer and leave military strategy to people who actually know something about it.

Originally Posted by Questerr

The Russians don't have to elude our defenses. How many times do I have to prove this?

They'd simply overwhelm them.

Exactly. That's the real danger with this missile shield. Russia's response will be to build up it's nuclear weapons capacity to try to overwhelm it. China then responds to Russia and then Pakistan to China, and so on.

Originally Posted by Horhey

Exactly. That's the real danger with this missile shield. Russia's response will be to build up it's nuclear weapons capacity to try to overwhelm it. China then responds to Russia and then Pakistan to China, and so on.

We are much more able both technologically and economically to enlarge our missile defense system than for them to build and arm more Nuclear ICBM's.