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Thread: Obama's Gay Marriage Evolution is Offensive to God and America

  1. #371

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    False! Yes, it would be best to look at the original Hebrew in context but we shall resort to analysis of the KJV translation, since most are not Hebrew experts here. We can still prove there is no contradiction.

    18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

    19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

    22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

    From the passages above you can not determine that God created animals after man.
    We already know from reading Genesis 1 that animals were created first.

    Verse 19 doesn't state when in time God created animals. It only states that God created animals and Adam was given the opportunity to name them. Obviously Adam couldn't name them unless
    man and the animals existed first. We can assume therefore that God created animals , then Adam and then later asked Adam to name the animals.
    You can't use the proposition you are trying to prove (that there are no contradictions in the Christian's book) in your proof. That's circular logic, and is completely invalid. It's equivalent to to saying that since there are no contradictions, there can't be any contradictions.

    The phrasing "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." is downright bizarre if animals existed before humans. Anyone with half a brain can clearly see that the sense of the passage is that Yahweh created Adam, and then created assorted animals and brought them to Adam for him to name them. If animals were created first, then Adam would never have been alone. Why then would Yahweh say that it's not good for Adam to be alone? That makes no sense at all.

    Face it, you decided on what you believed before you ever laid eyes on the text, and are simply twisting the plain meaning to suit your own ideas. Only someone who doesn't care what the text has to say would abuse it in such a way. If you don't care what the text actually says, why bother with it all?

    In any case, you only even tried to answer half the contradictions I pointed out. I really want to hear your reasoning that will make 40,000 = 4,000. It should be hilarious, and I'll bet it involves dividing zero by zero.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    NB! Adam didn't find the animals as suitable helpers or mates and so God created Eve, not Steve.
    God could have created Steve, but he didn't. Hence we can infer that gay marriage is
    not God's plan or creation, but man's. We can also infer beastiality wasn't God's plan.

    God's plan was to have one man and one wife as mates.
    I honestly don't give a flying flip what Yahweh's plans are. Considering that his previous plans have several times involved mass murder and (quite literally) crimes against humanity, I find it extraordinarily unlikely that any of his plans will have humanity's best interests at heart. Why in the world would you follow the plans of someone who blows up cities for sh*ts and giggles?
    Bosses don't create jobs, customers do.

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  3. Default

    18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
    This verse doesn't indicate what help meet is, but subsequent verses indicate it is Eve.

    Help in no way means animals by the way..

    God is the all-knowing creator, since he created Adam, he best knew what the suitable helper
    should be. It would be illogical to expect him to make a mistake in this.

    Again, Genesis 1 indicates animals come first in creation.
    You should not try to contradict Genesis 1 by an imposing a timeline that isn't specifically there.
    in Genesis 2:19.


    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!

    If Genesis2:19 included words that explicitly indicated the timeline, that would be different, but it doesn't.
    It simply states 1) God created animals from the ground 2) God brought them to Adam 3) Adam named them

    It is analytically proper to assume that God simply gathered the existing animals for Adam to name and nothing more.
    Don't create a contradiction purposely or twist it's meaning. Some gay groups attempt to distort
    what he Bible says, to satisfy their desires. How silly is that?

    2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!
    Last edited by sammy; Jun 09 2012 at 03:50 AM.

  4. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    This verse doesn't indicate what help meet is, but subsequent verses indicate it is Eve.

    Help in no way means animals by the way..

    God is the all-knowing creator, since he created Adam, he best knew what the suitable helper
    should be. It would be illogical to expect him to make a mistake in this.

    Again, Genesis 1 indicates animals come first in creation.
    You should not try to contradict Genesis 1 by an imposing a timeline that isn't specifically there.
    in Genesis 2:19.


    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!

    If Genesis2:19 included words that explicitly indicated the timeline, that would be different, but it doesn't.
    It simply states 1) God created animals from the ground 2) God brought them to Adam 3) Adam named them

    It is analytically proper to assume that God simply gathered the existing animals for Adam to name and nothing more.
    Don't create a contradiction purposely or twist it's meaning. Some gay groups attempt to distort
    what he Bible says, to satisfy their desires. How silly is that?

    2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!
    God is consistently depicted as the one who created the world and guides its history. He is not, however, consistently presented as the only god who exists - monotheism apparently only developed around the time of the Babylonian exile of the 6th century BC.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

    Historically monotheism originated around the 6th Century BC but was not established in the Bible until roughly 4,600 years later if we believe that the Books of Moses were even written by Moses in around 1400 BC.

    The question of when the Bible was written sparks a great deal of debate because of differing theology. Many believe that the Bible is specifically the word of God, and thus “writing” the Bible implies that humans had something to do with it, and might corrupt it. So, for example, much of the Old Testament, especially the first five books, is held by both Jews and Christians to be the divine word of God, scribed by Moses around 1400 BC. According to believers, there is no possibility of error in the scribing of God’s literal word.

    What many biblical scholars suggest, however, is that several interpretations seem to exist within the Old Testament. Particularly in Genesis it is confusing to many that there are two, or some count three, creation stories. “Why would God,” some argue, “deliberately obfuscate his own words?”

    This has led to many biblical scholars believing that there are actually two to three texts running in the Old Testament’s first five books, or Torah. One is probably the work of Moses, another a superimposition by priests or Rabbis, to spin the Bible toward beliefs held important at the time of writing. In fact, some scholars believe that the current first five books continued to be edited until about 800 BC.
    http://www.wisegeek.com/when-was-the-bible-written.htm

    As noted though based upon linquistic studies (language evolves over time) currently the general belief is that the Books of Moses were written by at least four different authors based upon their use of language and the differences in the writings.

    These factors led theologians to the conclusion that the Pentateuch is a hybrid document which was written well after Moses' death, and much later than the events portrayed. The authors and redactors are unknown, and are commonly referred to as authors J, E, P and D.

    J: a writer who:

    focuses on humanity in his/her writing;

    might possibly have been a woman. His/her writing shows much greater sensitivity towards women than does E;

    regularly used "JHWH" as God's name;

    describes God in anthropomorphic terms: God formed Adam from clay; he walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the garden; he spoke to Moses;

    lived in the southern kingdom of Judah, during an early period of Israel's history when they followed a nature/fertility religion. May have been a member of the Judean court;

    wrote a more or less complete story of the history of the Israelites from a Judean perspective;

    J was probably written sometime between 848 BCE (when King Jehoram gained power in Judah) and 722 BCE when the Assyrians destroyed the northern kingdom Israel and took its people into exile. Some scholars date J to the 10th century BCE.

    E: a writer who

    writes about religious and moralistic concerns;

    in all probability was a man;

    consistently used "Elohim" as God's name;

    lived in the northern kingdom of Israel;

    wrote a more or less complete story of the history of the Israelites from the perspective of the northern kingdom, including that version of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20;

    probably wrote between 922 and 722 BCE;

    may have been a priest from Shiloh who viewed Moses as his spiritual ancestor.

    D: a writer who:

    lived after J and E, because he was familiar with later developments in Israel's history. He lived at a time when the religion of ancient Israel was in its spiritual/ethical stage, about 622 BCE.

    wrote almost all of book of Deuteronomy, as well as Joshua, Judges, 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 & 2 Kings. A second writer edited the original text after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 587 BCE. He added the last two chapters to 2 Kings and inserted short passages elsewhere to reflect the change in circumstances brought about by the Babylonian attack.

    lived in Judah - probably in Jerusalem;

    was probably a Levitical priest - perhaps Jeremiah.

    P: a writer who:

    focused his writings on God;

    added material from a priestly perspective. It discusses priests' lives, religious rituals, dates, measurements, chronologies, genealogies, worship and law;

    was a priest who identified Aaron as his spiritual ancestor;

    views God as a distant, transcendent deity, less personal than in J and E; sometimes harsh and critical. The words "mercy," "grace" and "repentance" do not appear in his writing. In contrast, they appear about 70 times in J, E, and D;

    was displeased with the work of J and E and wrote P as an alternative history;

    rejected the concepts of angels, dreams and talking animals that are seen in J & E;

    believed that only Levites who were descended from Aaron could be priests;

    lived after J, E and D because he was aware of the books of the Prophets which were unknown to the others. Lived when the country's religion reached a priestly/legal stage, before the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BCE;

    patterned his writing after the topics in J and E.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora1.htm

    Obviously a verbal tradition of Moses was handed down from generation to generation in the Hebrew religion but based upon the study of the writings scholars can clearly identify differences between at least four different authors related to these books in the Bible. Far from reflecting a unified "inspired by God" commonality there are distinctive differences and even conflict between the writings.

    Those individuals that cite these books as being "authoritive" obviously fail to recognize or are completely unaware of these facts. When reading the Books of Moses a person has to understand that they are reading the expressed beliefs of individuals loosely based upon the oral traditions of the Hebrew religion. They are personal writings that have all of the error and personal opinions and beliefs of the authors that are, in many cases, contradicted by the other authors of these books. The Books of Moses are not a unified belief but instead a compilation of beliefs held by different authors over a span of hundreds of years. Often times these writings reflect pure myth and superstition such as the written belief that the "Creation" occurred in 5315 BC with mankind originating after that date when we know that the Earth and universe are billions of years old and modern man evolved around 250,000 years ago.

    http://www.bible.ca/b-bible-timeline...us-history.htm

    Anyone looking for accuracy related to anything other than the differing religious beliefs of the several authors in the Books of Moses which were based upon both limited knowledge of history and religious myths handed down over hundreds of years is going to come up short. There is simply no evidence that the Books of Moses are anything other than personal religious beliefs of the authors that, in some cases, conflicted with each other.
    Last edited by Shiva_TD; Jun 11 2012 at 03:17 AM.
    Republicans were more likely than Democrats to express racial prejudice in the questions measuring explicit (anti-black) racism (79% among Republicans compared with 32% among Democrats).
    Source: 2012 AP Study on racial prejudice in America (link providee on request by PM)

  5. #374

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    This verse doesn't indicate what help meet is, but subsequent verses indicate it is Eve.

    Help in no way means animals by the way..

    God is the all-knowing creator, since he created Adam, he best knew what the suitable helper
    should be. It would be illogical to expect him to make a mistake in this.

    Again, Genesis 1 indicates animals come first in creation.
    You should not try to contradict Genesis 1 by an imposing a timeline that isn't specifically there.
    in Genesis 2:19.


    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!

    If Genesis2:19 included words that explicitly indicated the timeline, that would be different, but it doesn't.
    It simply states 1) God created animals from the ground 2) God brought them to Adam 3) Adam named them

    It is analytically proper to assume that God simply gathered the existing animals for Adam to name and nothing more.
    Don't create a contradiction purposely or twist it's meaning. Some gay groups attempt to distort
    what he Bible says, to satisfy their desires. How silly is that?

    2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!
    And yet again you're starting with what you want to believe about Yahweh and completely ignoring what your book has to say about him. You say that your book is the word of your god, and yet you seem to consider your own opinions to be far superior to what your god has to say. Why is that? You want a perfect god to look after you so much that you'll completely ignore what your own book says to try to make Yahweh what you want him to be. Aren't you putting your own emotional needs ahead of what your god has to say? Aren't you willfully ignoring the word of god because you don't want to hear what he has to say?

    Has it occurred to you that there's another way to interpret this situation using your assumptions that does not involve twisting the text to say what you mean? If this book is the direct word of Yahweh, and everything in it was deliberately put there by Yahweh, then might it not be possible that the presence of contradictions is Yahweh telling you that it's just a book, and you shouldn't take it too seriously? Might it not be that Yahweh is telling you that life is too complicated for any book to ever address all the possible issues that may arise in it? That the real message is that a book is simply not an adequate medium to convey everything there is to know about life, and that Yahweh is telling you to think for yourself?
    Bosses don't create jobs, customers do.

  6. Default

    And yet again you're starting with what you want to believe about Yahweh and completely ignoring what your book has to say about him.
    False! I provided the biblical verses from the KJV translation and analyzed them in a logical way
    without any addition. It would be better to see the original Hebrew but the KJV is a pretty decent translation
    according to experts.

    There was no ignoring done. Each related verse was examined and there was no logical contradiction
    found.

    Injecting words into what is written in the Bible is blasphemy and
    surely you could possibly arrive at an interpretation that is to your liking
    this way. Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!


    Even man's laws don't permit an individual to change the rules or history to their liking.
    Unless you are a president like Obama whom wants to change the US constitution
    to suit his corrupt goals and ideal.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!

  7. Default

    Obviously a verbal tradition of Moses was handed down from generation to generation in the Hebrew religion but based upon the study of the writings scholars can clearly identify differences between at least four different authors related to these books in the Bible. Far from reflecting a unified "inspired by God" commonality there are distinctive differences and even conflict between the writings.
    False! Even if there were different men involved there are no conflicts.
    Those that try to find conflicts are biased and will jump to false conclusions if they can.

    The fact that there are no contradictions indicates the Bible is inspired by God.

    Even some atheists marvel at the consistency of the Bible.
    They just don't believe in it.

    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
    Last edited by sammy; Jun 09 2012 at 12:00 PM.

  8. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    False! I provided the biblical verses from the KJV translation and analyzed them in a logical way
    without any addition. It would be better to see the original Hebrew but the KJV is a pretty decent translation
    according to experts.

    There was no ignoring done. Each related verse was examined and there was no logical contradiction
    found.

    Injecting words into what is written in the Bible is blasphemy and
    surely you could possibly arrive at an interpretation that is to your liking
    this way. Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!


    Even man's laws don't permit an individual to change the rules or history to their liking.
    Unless you are a president like Obama whom wants to change the US constitution
    to suit his corrupt goals and ideal.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
    Don't give me that. You're twisting the meaning to suit yourself and you know it. Listing a series of events denotes chronological order, unless some other order is stated or implied. Or are you saying that sentence order is irrelevant, and you can take the entire text and reorder the sentences to get the result you want? Actually, not even whole sentences, we're talking about reordering clauses.

    You believe that when you die, you'll meet Yahweh and he'll judge you on everything you've done in your life, right? So what are you going to have to say for yourself when he asks you why you chose to ignore the plain meaning of his words?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    False! Even if there were different men involved there are no conflicts.
    Those that try to find conflicts are biased and will jump to false conclusions if they can.

    The fact that there are no contradictions indicates the Bible is inspired by God.

    Even some atheists marvel at the consistency of the Bible.
    They just don't believe in it.
    And which atheists would those be, hmmmm? I hang out with atheists, and I can assure you that not a one of them thinks your book is even remotely close to being self consistent.
    Bosses don't create jobs, customers do.

  9. #378

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    A simple question. Is God opposed to people being treated with equality under the law?
    Republicans were more likely than Democrats to express racial prejudice in the questions measuring explicit (anti-black) racism (79% among Republicans compared with 32% among Democrats).
    Source: 2012 AP Study on racial prejudice in America (link providee on request by PM)

  10. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
    A simple question. Is God opposed to people being treated with equality under the law?
    Ironically enough, I find myself disagreeing with the premise of your question, Shiva. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the law is about treating people unequally, that is people who commit offenses are punished in some way. The real question is whether or not there's anything wrong with homosexuality, if there's any reason being gay should be an offense under the law. I say no.
    Bosses don't create jobs, customers do.

  11. #380

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    Oh no worries guys I just asked God and he says that Heterosexuals are the evil ones and everyone should be Homosexual. Of coarse he promotes all Heterosexuals to change their biology to become homosexual by wishing hard enough, who says it can't work?!?

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