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Thread: How in God's name are we going to pay for medical care for all of these new people?

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northwinds View Post

    You and me brother ..... that's who is going to be paying for all of this ..... nothing ever changes. The sad part is there are "progressives" out there that sincerely believe that the threat of IRS action is really gonna force the low level parastites into buying health care...what a joke. Yep, can't you just see Charlie the wino at the Union Mission, and Maria and Juan who already claim all of their nieces and nephews in Mexico to get the "earned income tax" payment, and DeMario who works at Waffle House so he can buy the next Air Jordans...can't you just see all of them picking up the phone today to call Blue Cross/Blue Shield to order up that $1500 a month policy......LMAO at the shear stupidity of all this.
    In tax year 2009, the top 1 percent of filers — those “millionaires and billionaires” with adjusted gross annual incomes of more $343,927 whom the Occupy Wall Street rabble is demonizing — paid nearly 40 percent of federal income taxes.

    The top 10 percent with incomes over $112,124 (say, a New York City cop and a teacher filing jointly) paid more than 70 percent of income taxes.
    James Cessna

    "If you give a man a fish (socialism), you feed him for a day. It you teach a man to fish (capitalism), you feed him and the people he employs for a lifetime."


  2. #12

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    I can seal this issue now see all those GAAP recognized schools with medical programs around the world okay if a doctor graduates in good standing, practices medicine for five years (domestically at home, doctors without borders or military any experience) and stays in good standing. Let them enter the nation with fast tracked citizenship and issue them a license as a GP at the national level if they did those things and this checks out and they speak English with decent literacy and skill. There you go uber numbers of doctors from around the world coming here to practice medicine.

    Just leave specialties and the like as they must do alot more and follow traditional routes.

    Come on I know they are not as qualified but most basic medical practice at the GP level is not heart surgery any doctor from Cuba or Thailand or South Africa or Iran should have the required based of knowledge and skill to tend most issues. And since they come with no debt they can be had at a good price.

    And since I'm poor if they have to tax the income from investments, selling houses and other sources to pay for my subsidized exchange plan then FINE, I don't care since the people with those do not give a (*)(*)(*)(*)ed about me in the end. I vote and since the law passed mostly I'm planning to vote for the Democrats all the way since its in MY best interest to do so.

    (My state will not be taking the Medicaid expansion money or do an exchange, the Feds will do the latter so I will just sign up for that.)
    Last edited by tkolter; Jun 30 2012 at 12:47 PM.
    "In antiquity...slaves were, in all honesty called slaves. In the middle ages, they took the name of serfs: Nowadays they are called wage earners." - Michael Bakunin


    Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)
    http://www.pslweb.org/

  3. #13
    wales uk wales
    Location: UK, Cymru mostly, sometimes England.
    Posts: 7,371

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    We pay about half as much as you do. You need to eliminate private profit for an efficient service.
    Gobeithiaw y ddaw ydd wyf.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkolter View Post
    I can seal this issue now see all those GAAP recognized schools with medical programs around the world okay if a doctor graduates in good standing, practices medicine for five years (domestically at home, doctors without borders or military any experience) and stays in good standing. Let them enter the nation with fast tracked citizenship and issue them a license as a GP at the national level if they did those things and this checks out and they speak English with decent literacy and skill. There you go uber numbers of doctors from around the world coming here to practice medicine.

    Just leave specialties and the like as they must do alot more and follow traditional routes.

    Come on I know they are not as qualified but most basic medical practice at the GP level is not heart surgery any doctor from Cuba or Thailand or South Africa or Iran should have the required based of knowledge and skill to tend most issues. And since they come with no debt they can be had at a good price.

    And since I'm poor if they have to tax the income from investments, selling houses and other sources to pay for my subsidized exchange plan then FINE, I don't care since the people with those do not give a (*)(*)(*)(*)ed about me in the end. I vote and since the law passed mostly I'm planning to vote for the Democrats all the way since its in MY best interest to do so.

    (My state will not be taking the Medicaid expansion money or do an exchange, the Feds will do the latter so I will just sign up for that.)


    Do you think a poctor coming here from abroad is not going to want to get paid the same as American doctors?

    Like I said before, everyone in this country has health care now. We only have two groups that need fixing. Those with past problems and those that need extended care. We can't fix those without changing our whole system?
    Beam me up Scottie, no intelligent life down here.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
    We pay about half as much as you do. You need to eliminate private profit for an efficient service.
    Efficient service? I understand many of your doctors and dentist leave Great Britain to go some place else where they get more pay. Also there is long waiting times to get service. True or not?
    Beam me up Scottie, no intelligent life down here.

  6. Default

    Obviously the quality of medicine will be dramatically reduced, and there will be overcrowding in the limited medical facillities available. It will be just like many third world countries. Take a look at the future...



    Line to get into the emergency room in India, these types of long lines are common:


    And once you finally get inside the waiting room:

  7. #17

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    Don't you worry about a thing....when either our young, their children or their children are coerced into relinquishing ownership of means of production to the state....you know, for "the common good"...everything will be hunky dory.

    Oh...you said "we"....
    well, "our" job is to keep the quazi-collectivist welfare state plates spinning in the air until the left's long cultivated "emergency" arrives
    Last edited by webrockk; Jun 30 2012 at 01:06 PM.
    The smallest minority on the earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities ~ Ayn Rand

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland View Post
    Obviously the quality of medicine will be dramatically reduced, and there will be overcrowding in the limited medical facillities available. It will be just like many third world countries. Take a look at the future...


    Line to get into the emergency room in India, these types of long lines are common:


    And once you finally get inside the waiting room:
    These pictures are hilarious if they are being puported as coming from foreign countries.

    Quite often, the USA ERs that I work at look just like this.

    The clueless Righties who make the claims made in the OP simply ignore the fact that the USA usually ends up doing SOME CRISIS CARE for EVERYONE.

    Obamacare is going allow more and more care to be MUCH simpler and cheaper care BEFORE someone has gotten deathly ill.
    Last edited by fiddlerdave; Jun 30 2012 at 01:05 PM.
    -----------------------

    Shakespeare said it long ago when he described the Right Wing political movement so very well -

    "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing."

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    How in God's name are we going to pay for medical care for all of these new people (30 million of them!) when most of them do not work?

    Where are we going to get the new doctors that are now required to care for them?

    The Coming Doctor Shortage

    If the argument for a wholesale revamping of American healthcare depends on the large number of uninsured, typically estimated at 45 million (although a New York Times editorial elevated the number of medically uninsured and underinsured to over 100 million), then there had better be some plan that goes along with the reform to find the 25,000 to 50,000 new physicians that will be required. And by the way, since the number of physicians retiring in the next decade will be about 25,000 per year, you can see we have a bit of a problem.

    Will skilled surgeons be available after 2014 to save your life when you need them most?

    Let’s say it all works out and we welcome the supposed 45 million or so individuals without healthcare insurance into the fold and they receive the preventive care and primary care that we are told will solve the problems of American healthcare .

    Based on the assumption that these uninsured people are not receiving healthcare now, we will need about 100,000 more doctors than we have at present (our current physician workforce is about 900,000 physicians). This number is based on our current count of 2.43/1000 population according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Let’s be conservative and assume that half of these individuals are receiving some kind of care now, so that we will only need 50,000.

    One response to this assumption may be that we already have too many doctors. Perhaps, but the average in the much-admired France, for example, is about 30% higher per 1000 population than in the U.S., so it is likely that we will really need at least that many more doctors to handle the workload.

    Here is a much more reliable report on the subject.

    The reasons for the shortage of physicians in the U.S. are quite complex and, as usual, there is a component of blame attributable to Congress and Medicare.

    In order to secure a medical license, one needs to graduate from an accredited medical school and then take at least a one year postgraduate residency position, although the vast majority of graduates, even those entering primary care type practices, pursue an additional 2 to 3 years of training. For some specialties of surgery or medicine, the additional post-graduate training can be 5 to 8 years.

    Medicare is the largest single source of funding of graduate medical education, another name for residency training.. The Department of Veterans Affairs also finances the training of about 10% of residents. The costs of graduate medical education are financed by Medicare under two mechanisms: Direct Medical-Education payments to hospitals for a share of residents’ stipends, faculty salaries, administrative expenses, and an overhead allocation to residency programs; and the so-called Indirect Medical-Education adjustment to Medicare payments for each Medicare patient treated at the hospital. The rationale for this indirect education adjustment is the relatively higher costs attributable to the more severe degrees of illness typical of Medicare patients who require specialized services available in teaching hospitals.

    In 1997, Medicare’s direct payments for graduate medical education totaled $2.2 billion — 47 percent more than in 1990. Medicare’s indirect medical-education adjustment is based on the number of full-time-equivalent residents who are being trained in the inpatient and outpatient departments of a teaching hospital. Generally, the more residents there are, the greater the payments to a hospital will be. Such payments to teaching hospitals totaled $4.6 billion in 1997 — 84 percent more than in 1990.

    In an effort to cut the costs of Medicare, the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 was enacted. Among other effects, it reduced direct payments for Graduate Medical Education by $700 million and trimmed $1.1 billion per year off Medicare’s indirect teaching payments for the subsequent five years. Also, for the first time, Congress imposed a cap on the number of residents the program would support by its direct and indirect teaching payments. The idea was that fewer physicians would mean lower costs.

    This was a disastrous error as we now face the aforementioned shortfall in primary care physicians for the proposed newly insured individuals in addition to a universally recognized coming shortage of all types of physicians, both primary care and specialist physicians. In proof, the new 2008 recommendation made by the governing body of the nation’s medical schools (the Association of American Medical Colleges) demands that,” serious efforts must be made to expand the number of health professionals educated to care for a population that continues to grow and whose aging will place unprecedented demands upon the health care system.”
    If the argument for a wholesale revamping of American healthcare depends on the large number of uninsured, typically estimated at 45 million (although a New York Times editorial elevated the number of medically uninsured and underinsured to over 100 million), then there had better be some plan that goes along with the reform to find the 25,000 to 50,000 new physicians that will be required. And by the way, since the number of physicians retiring in the next decade will be about 25,000 per year, you can see we have a bit of a problem.

    http://www.frumforum.com/the-coming-doctor-shortage
    I have a pretty good idea.....

    The Affordable Care Act requires employers to report the cost of coverage under an employer-sponsored group health plan. Reporting the cost of health care coverage on the Form W-2 does not mean that the coverage is taxable. The value of the employer’s excludable contribution to health coverage continues to be excludable from an employee's income, and it is not taxable. This reporting is for informational purposes only and will provide employees useful and comparable consumer information on the cost of their health care coverage.

    Form W-2 Reporting of Employer-Sponsored Health Coverage
    They mean NOT TAXABLE yet. They could have just as easily required employers to provide a yearly reports to employees on their benefits cost for the same information value. Curious why they wanted it on your W-2? This leaves little doubt as to where they will fill in revenue from as Obama Care sinks into the financial abyss. They simply stick a chunk into the tax code that everyone pay say 1% on the value of their private insurance, skys the limit from there. Then there already is a FMHI deduction on your pay stub. FMHI, or federal medical health insurance is what you pay into social security, the system is already in place. Another chunk of tax code and presto chango, FMHI now includes an ACA deduction.
    "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    How in God's name are we going to pay for medical care for all of these new people (30 million of them!) when most of them do not work?
    Simple....do like we have been doing....call Bernanke.....inflation will fix all our problems...

    /sarcasm
    Last edited by headhawg7; Jun 30 2012 at 01:10 PM.

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