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Thread: Several people shot outside Empire State Building

  1. Default

    Saw this on another forum:

    No matter where you stand on gun politics, we need to force the NYPD to re-evaluate their training and especially their use of modified, heavy triggers on their firearms:

    From user /u/wewd in /r/news.

    When the NYPD switched from Smith & Wesson revolvers, which had about a 12 lb trigger pull, to Glock semiautomatics, which have a 5.5 lb trigger pull, the NYPD found that their officers were having a high incidence of negligent discharges due to the lower weight trigger pull. Instead of altering their training, as every other police department did, and teach the officers not to put their fingers on the trigger until they're prepared to fire, they decided to re-engineer the Glock trigger to add an 8 lb resistance spring to the trigger, effectively giving it a pull weight about the same as the old revolvers (~12 lbs).

    Due to the design of the Glock's firing mechanism, using a spring-loaded striker instead of an external hammer, this didn't exactly result in a trigger that had the same feel and function of the old revolvers; it just made the trigger very cumbersome to use, especially for rapid follow-up shots. What ends up happening is the increased trigger pull weight causes the user to torque their grip on the firearm, resulting in the muzzle waving off the target for rapid follow-up shots.

    It has been documented* that NYPD officers have some of the lowest accuracy scores, both in the controlled, low-stress environment of the qualification range, as well as in real-world officer-involved shootings. This includes an incident where officers fired a total of 73 rounds at a suspect, hitting him a total of two times. That sort of performance from a police force is unacceptable.

    The NYPD are the only police department that use the modified heavy trigger in their Glock pistols. All other departments worldwide use the standard 5.5lb trigger.

    To compare the performance of their officers to another large police force, the LAPD use standard Beretta 92F (US Army designation M9) 9mm pistols, which have triggers that operate in double-action (12 lbs) for the first shot, and single-action (5 lbs) for all follow-up shots. The LAPD officers have a 51% hit rate.*

    The NYPD's modified Glocks operate in double-action for every shot with a 12 lb trigger pull, and their officers have a 15% hit rate.* *[Source: SPECIAL REPORT: FIREARMS, Aveni, Thomas; Law and Order, Vol. 51, No.8 August 2003]

    A 15% hit rate is absolutely unacceptable, especially by officers that may have to use their firearms against armed suspects in a crowded city environment, as was the case in this incident. 16 shots were fired, and 9 bystanders were struck. It's unknown how many shots struck the suspect, or how many struck no-one at all.

    Instead of training their officers to be safer users of firearms, the NYPD decided to modify their guns, which resulted in guns that are much less effective, and quite frankly, more dangerous to bystanders than the alternative.

    edit: I feel like I need to add this: The officers were 100% justified in shooting this man, as it appears pretty certain the guy pointed a gun on them. Further, I don't even necessarily blame these officers for shooting 9 innocent bystanders. For all we know these guys were good shots, but were simply forced to use a (*)(*)(*)(*)ty weapon. The blame here should fall on the officers' superiors and any politicians involved in making the rules pertaining to their training and, more importantly, the weapons they use. As I said elsewhere in this thread, Navy Seals and competition shooters would shoot like (*)(*)(*)(*) if they were forced to use 12 lb DAO triggers in a situation where they needed to rapidly shoot their weapon. It is just an inherently inaccurate function, period.

    Like it or not, I believe (read: opinion, not necessarily fact) that along with a desire to cut-corners by not adequately training their police force and/or a refusal to fire those who cannot properly handle a firearm due to heavy police union influence, much of the reasoning behind this policy can be traced back to NYC's rabidly anti-gun culture. When your entire population is told that guns are inherently bad and unsafe, it is should not be a surprise when policies are shaped around this fear rather than around common sense and logic. As I said elsewhere, there is a really simple solution to this problem even if they want to maintain a heavy trigger pull on their firearms for safety: using DA/SA hammer-fired guns where the first shot can be made to have a heavy trigger pull for safety, and subsequent shots have a lighter, shorter trigger pull for accuracy. That said, there are other cities with similar anti-gun cultures, notably DC and Chicago, where their police forces do not use these kind of trigger requirements.
    Any deity who claims to be all powerful and perfect puts them self into the Big Rock Paradox:

    "Can an omnipotent being create a rock so big not even they can lift it? If not then they are not truly omnipotent, and even if they can, the fact they cannot lift it also means they are not omnipotent."

  2. Likes webrockk, hiimjered, Akula liked this post
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  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    Nope, that's no different to you guys swearing allegiance to a flag. Words.
    It is an oath, made freely and willingly. It is no different than the oath you give to repay a loan or fulfill the obligations of any contract. While I don't disagree that many people don't have sufficient honor to actually keep their word, the fact remains that if any British military member ever disobeys any order the queen gives, they will be breaking their oath and will be proven to have no honor.
    TANSTAAFL

  5. #163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    Don't you think it's telling that the righties always jump to the conclusion that the perpetrators in these killings aren't white? I wonder why that might be...surely they aren't a bunch of brain-dead racist dickheads? No, couldn't possibly be the reason.
    Too much TV and Hollywood.

    In films and movies, whenever someone robs a 7/11 the guy is always black or Hispanic.
    "The eagle watches from the mountain.
    As the warriors turn into fools.
    And the dice are thrown on sacred ground.
    And they move closer to the truth"

  6. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by lizarddust View Post
    Too much TV and Hollywood.

    In films and movies, whenever someone robs a 7/11 the guy is always black or Hispanic.
    Those are called documentaries.

  7. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiimjered View Post
    That has them swearing their allegiance to the queen. It would be a breach of honor for them to disobey anything that she told them to do.
    But she doesn't tell "them" what to do.
    "The eagle watches from the mountain.
    As the warriors turn into fools.
    And the dice are thrown on sacred ground.
    And they move closer to the truth"

  8. #166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    Those are called documentaries.
    Those are highly fictitious.
    "The eagle watches from the mountain.
    As the warriors turn into fools.
    And the dice are thrown on sacred ground.
    And they move closer to the truth"

  9. #167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lizarddust View Post
    Those are highly fictitious.
    I'll have to defer to your superior knowledge and experience with american culture, crime and living in a black majority city.

    Oh wait...you don't have any...

  10. #168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post

    Like the rest of the british and most of the australians who both live on islands and have inbred for centuries, he should just post.
    Supplying proof is in your court.

    25% of all Australians have atleast one parent born in a country other than Australia.
    "The eagle watches from the mountain.
    As the warriors turn into fools.
    And the dice are thrown on sacred ground.
    And they move closer to the truth"

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lizarddust View Post
    But she doesn't tell "them" what to do.
    But the truth of my statement remains:

    "Regardless, if your military members have any honor at all, your queen could take over the country, disband parliament and go right back to monarchical rule if she so desired. Your soldiers swear allegiance to the queen, not to the country, the citizens or the government."

    Even though she may not choose to exercise that power, the fact remains that she does have that power.
    TANSTAAFL

  12. #170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lizarddust View Post
    Supplying proof is in your court.

    25% of all Australians have atleast one parent born in a country other than Australia.
    So they're 75% inbred...It shows.

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