http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7229169.stm

All of the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth by the left seems to be much ado about nothing. We did it to a grand total of three people, all of which were high ranking members of Al Qaeda. And in terms of the hypothetical "24 scenario" and torturing to prevent a catastrophe...


That was the reasoning at the time for doing it. What a major non-issue this ended up being.

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JMS gets another English lesson:

Quote:

there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.

The result:

Quote:

By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.

It's not a "liberal lie" that we should have been concerned about this -- about what acts are being perpetrated in our name.

Arguably, the only reason its use has been limited to three high-profile targets is because of the public outcry.

I have no problem with its use in extreme circumstances -- as in, to stop imminent attacks. But it is torture, and its use should be heavily restricted.

And the administration could have defused the whole issue years ago by simply spelling out the policy: we'll use it, but only in emergencies. That wouldn't have helped terrorists.

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Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.

As a matter of policy, torture has to be illegal.

If someone finds themselves in some circumstance where it's actually necessary, they can explain it to a judge.

in the future one of our troops will be tortured
i'm predicting that all of the chickehawks who advocate torture as an acceptable practice by us will be up in arms (someone else - in military uniform - will be carrying them, however)
there will be a hue and cry that the enemy is despicable and without honor because they tortured an American
i hope that day of reckoning is very distant. but when it happens, know that you have given them license to act in that barbaric fashion - just like us

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1.20.09 - the end of an error

"The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do." Joseph Stalin

Life is a sexually transmitted disease having a 100% fatality rate

I didn't say it was a lie, but that it ended up a non-story. But how do you know the outcry had anything to do with it? When did waterboarding enter the press? I don't think the administration is great at communicating, but that said, do you really think it would have ended the controversy?

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JMS gets another English lesson:

Quote:

there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.

The result:

Quote:

By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.

Yes, I do. Sure, there are always people who will say it's unacceptable no matter what, but most people understand "extreme circumstances." As long as we trust that it is, in fact, limited to such situations.

__________________
Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.

There will be a day? I'm pretty sure I'd consider beheading someone or raping them torture. So that day has come and gone and it had nothing to do with our use of waterboarding. When the US starts torturing prisoners for kicks as official policy (as Muslim extremists have done) then your comparison will be valid. Until then, torture to stop an imminent attack is not even in the same ballpark.

__________________
JMS gets another English lesson:

Quote:

there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.

The result:

Quote:

By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.

Already has many times....

I guess you where too busy whining over some EDIT who planned 9/11 tortured and cut off heads to notice....

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"We make war that we may live in peace"
"...peace is the highest aspiration of the American People. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever."
"War critics can no longer credibly argue that we are losing in Iraq, so now they argue the war costs too much."
"Oderint dum metuant"
http://members.cox.net/neddy/bobhope_kerfuffles.wmv
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnfflRNpwKA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QYIP7o2-A

Then you agree that McCain is dead wrong on this issue.


Then you agree with this administration's approach to using this technique.


I don't think it helps our ongoing interrogation processes if the terrorists know in advance what techniques will be used against them.

I wouldn't say dead wrong. I'm opposed to its use in almost all circumstances. Just because I can see *very* extreme situations where it might be justified doesn't mean I'd shed any tears if we banned the procedure.

That would assume the administration actually had a definitive policy on it. All we know for sure is that it was only used three times, in exigent circumstances. We don't know that it was limited to those three by policy. And policy limits are changeable, nowhere near as strong as statutory limits.

And I strongly disagreed with the administration's refusal to explain its policy.

I don't think it helps protect civil liberties and our moral standing in the world if we don't question what our government does in our name. There's a tradeoff there, between disclosing tactics and being accountable to one's citizens. Saying "it will help terrorists" shouldn't automatically trump being accountable -- at least not in a functioning democracy.

And letting terrorists know we'll waterboard them if we have to hardly constitutes a major revelation. It's a well-known technique. It's not like AQ is unfamiliar with torture techniques: if they're training people to resist, they'll cover the bases.

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Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.