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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguy";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotter";p=&quot View Post
I can still see no reason why even single shot rifles that look like automatic assault weapons should be legalized. There is no reason for any guns really other than to kill.
Using this logic, I guess you would also see no reason why Ferraris should be legalized. There is no reason for those cars other than to drive really, really fast.
Actually a system with a special driving licenses for high performance cars could be in order in some cases. Especially the drivers medical condition would need to have a closer check in these case. High speedes require extremely fast reactions. I am not really proposing that that there should be such driving licences but it could merit a serioues discussion. I am aware that your purpose what to show an analogy but it failed since your analogy turned out to be an actually useful idea. Besides, weapon permits, when these exists, have limitations to what the permit holder may have. So a "Ferrari gun" does indeed require a more potent permit then a simple handgun.
Yes, a closer analogy that I used earlier: Banning a semi-automatic AK-47 is like banning a Ferrari with a Honda Civic engine.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by EuP";p=&quot View Post
The burst-fire option isn't necessary. I never used it, and most of my men didn't either.
We were generally told not to even think of using it. Of course, that was in training.

But it exists. So why shouldn't civilians have the exact same weapon? What is the logic for not letting them have the exact same weapon?

Quote:
You don't have a 204 or SAW without a fireteam. Individual citizens are not fireteams.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
The basic gun of our armed forces does not have an automatic setting. The burst is just a waste of ammunition.
I was referring to the XM-8 I linked to. It does have a fully-auto setting. If it's adopted by the Army, should civilians be allowed to buy the full-auto version?

If not, why not?
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:59 AM
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Default Huh

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Originally Posted by mpotter
For your information a good hunter doesn't need anything better than a shotgun to kill a deer.
For your information, I've successfully taken deer with both shotguns and rifles, and the rifle is the superior weapon.

The idea that a non-hunter is going to lecture me about what makes a "good" hunter is absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotter
He is a good hunter, and he does not have to use assault weapons to do it.
Childish strawman. I never suggested one needed an "assault weapon" (whatever you believe that to be today) to kill a deer.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:00 AM
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Default to hunt

all i need is a six pack and bow and arrow.

people who use guns are wussies.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:04 AM
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Default Ah, Mike....you need to come visit us down here in the wilds

of Florida.

Quote:
Protection is a relative term. Most crimes of the home are committed without a weapon or at the least a knife. Bringing your own gun into the situation only ups the risk you or your family is going to get shot. As for the rabid dog or racoon or whatever, I personally would keep my family inside and call the wildlife and conservation authorities or the police and have them take care of the situation.
I'm guessing you live in the city, and not in the boonies where people largely have to handle their own business. My husband shot a rattler last year in our yard. It was as big around as my forearm....(Eastern Diamondback).

I suppose we should have waited for animal control.

As for home protection, most cops will tell you that if you're going to own a gun, a shotgun is the best sort to own. If you do live in BFE, and I do, it's going to take the police a long while to get to your house. Of course, if you live in BFE, it's probably also legal to shoot an intruder without inquiring of his business in your home. Which would be our preference. No, I don't expect to ever use the gun for that purpose, but on a camping trip a few years ago, up in the Uintah Mountains in Eastern Utah, after listening to some idiots firing off rounds all night (and then, a few months later, hearing a news story about a missing couple whose bodies were discovered in the spring by the smell--who disappeared from an area only about 100 yards from where we were camped), we no longer camp without a weapon.

Quote:
First off, I don't think of hunting being a sport by any definition of the word.
Yes, we know this. You prefer to be carnivorous, but not do the dirty work yourself. We've already established that you like to eat fuzzy little animals, but like to remove yourself from the ugly process of killing them as much as possible. And, of course, your values on this issue should trump other people's values, right?

Quote:
Secondly, do you need to use assault weapons as hunting tools?
Remember? You were suggesting banning ALL weapons aside from shotguns and .22s. So YOU PERSONALLY widened the parameters of discussion.

Quote:
No...that's what shotguns are for.
Shotguns are preferable for birding, but for hunting deer, rifles are far more humane.

Quote:
For those who target shoot, I still don't see how that is important.
Yes, again, your values and preferences should trump those of everyone else.

Quote:
Get a dart board.
Move to England...where they have no crime since they've banned guns.

Right?

Quote:
You can get food at the grocery store, or you can hunt like I said with shotguns or bow and arrow and be just as successful as you would be with assault weapons. I think these hunters look ridiculous...like they are going off to war against the woods.
And, by all means, your opinion on such matters should rule the day. Others feel differently. Why are your opinions on such things more valid than theirs?

Quote:
A lot of people don't like the kick of a shotgun and so a .22 rifle is good for shooting smaller animals like birds or squirrels etc.
My comments were in regards to a .22 handgun, which is what I'd suggested, repeatedly, should be banned.


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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:05 AM
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Default ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
We were generally told not to even think of using it. Of course, that was in training.

But it exists. So why shouldn't civilians have the exact same weapon? What is the logic for not letting them have the exact same weapon?
Why should they have the "exact same weapon?" That's not my point in the least. I support being "comparably armed." This means if they use knives, we have knives. If they have rifles, we have rifles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
I was referring to the XM-8 I linked to. It does have a fully-auto setting. If it's adopted by the Army, should civilians be allowed to buy the full-auto version?

If not, why not?
I don't believe fully-automatic weapons are necessary. I'll settle for comparable abilities in range, accuracy, mobility, capacity and damage. As I'm sure you know, automatic weapons don't have a lot of advantages over comparable semi-automatic weapons in a fight past intimidation and suppression. Most of the hostiles I encountered during my tour were using automatic AKs, but I didn't envy their rate of fire (even if I did even the dependability of their weapons of choice).
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:06 AM
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Default Eup...

I wonder if Mpotter was taught to stalk deer through the forest on his belly...
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:08 AM
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Default >

http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/jul04/241516.asp
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:08 AM
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Default Heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow
I wonder if Mpotter was taught to stalk deer through the forest on his belly...
...with a coach gun and steel shot! That's how the "real" hunters do it, after all...
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:09 AM
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Default Ah, I can always count on you...

to get my little jokes.

Such people are rare, which is why I value our friendship.

btw, I missed you this week.

Catz
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