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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:45 AM
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Default Not exactly

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Originally Posted by catzmeow";p=&quot View Post
What reason does someone have to keep a .22? They're not good for personal protection. They aren't good for hunting. They aren't used for sport target shooting.
They're fine for hunting squirrels and rabbits. But I guess you'd consider that sport hunting, because if you were seriously hunting varmints, you'd use a shotgun.

I used to go squirrel-hunting with a 20-gauge over/under -- shotgun loaded with birdshot for quail. Once I put the selector on the wrong barrel while aiming at a squirrel. We never actually found the body.

And we used the .22 for target shooting. They're really good for that.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:47 AM
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Default then...

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Originally Posted by Liberty";p=&quot View Post
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Originally Posted by maximus-erectus";p=&quot View Post
a car is a not a gun.
If a car were a gun, then it wouldn't be an analogy, would it?

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Originally Posted by maximus-erectus";p=&quot View Post
it's a stupid analogy, you should know better.
If it's such a bad analogy you should have no problem telling us why it's a bad analogy.

Is this the best you can do in a debate? You may as well be calling people "poo-poo heads" for disagreeing with you.
you said and i paraphrase, honda civics can kill people, why not ban them?

why? i already told you, a car is not a gun. a knife is not a gun. a discoball is not a gun.

it's stupid to make analogies like that, poo poo head
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:47 AM
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Default ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
I guess it depends upon how you define "generic rifleman."
I suppose. Let's look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
When I was in the Army, every member of an infantry squad carried an M16 that had a three-shot burst mode. So on that point alone, we should allow civilians to have more-lethal weapons.
The burst-fire option isn't necessary. I never used it, and most of my men didn't either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
If I'm remembering correctly, two of those soldiers had a 40mm grenade launcher attachment on their M16. Another two carried SAWs -- light machine guns.

When you broke down into fire teams, each team had a SAW, a grenadier and at least two people with base M16s. But they were all considered riflemen.
You don't have a 204 or SAW without a fireteam. Individual citizens are not fireteams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri
Should civilians be allowed to buy one of these? I suppose you might argue that the shotgun and grenade modules are attachments, so civilians can buy the basic gun. But the basic gun has single-shot, burst, and fully auto settings.
The basic gun of our armed forces does not have an automatic setting. The burst is just a waste of ammunition.

We can already buy a civilian version, exactly the same save for the burst option. As it should be.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:48 AM
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Default I've never been one to shoot squirrels and rabbits.



In fact, the thought makes me sad, though I hear they taste like chicken.

We keep a shotgun in the house, for our limited use, I figure that's all we really need.

But, my contact with .22s has been primarily in an urban setting where their applications are limited.

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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:48 AM
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Default Ok

Quote:
1) self protection. A rifle/shotgun is simply more valuable for protecting one's property and home than is a handgun. Say there is a rabid dog (or in our neighborhood, a rabid raccoon or other sort of wildlife). How much value is there in having a handgun? Not much.
Protection is a relative term. Most crimes of the home are committed without a weapon or at the least a knife. Bringing your own gun into the situation only ups the risk you or your family is going to get shot. As for the rabid dog or racoon or whatever, I personally would keep my family inside and call the wildlife and conservation authorities or the police and have them take care of the situation.

Quote:
2) Sport...whether hunting or target shooting.
First off, I don't think of hunting being a sport by any definition of the word. Secondly, do you need to use assault weapons as hunting tools? No...that's what shotguns are for. For those who target shoot, I still don't see how that is important. Get a dart board.

Quote:
3) Food...again, hunting. Most hunters eat what they shoot. I know in our neighborhood, I've been gifted with a lot of venison sausage from our local
hunters...who keep most of what they shoot and give the rest away.
You can get food at the grocery store, or you can hunt like I said with shotguns or bow and arrow and be just as successful as you would be with assault weapons. I think these hunters look ridiculous...like they are going off to war against the woods.

Quote:
What reason does someone have to keep a .22? They're not good for personal protection. They aren't good for hunting. They aren't used for sport target shooting.
A lot of people don't like the kick of a shotgun and so a .22 rifle is good for shooting smaller animals like birds or squirrels etc. And for those who just must target shoot, these are fine for people to target shoot for fun. They can be just as accurate as any assault weapon just not as interesting to look at.

Quote:
They're only used to shoot people.
I beg to differ. My father has one, and I've never once seen him use it to shoot people with. He has used it to target shoot with and he has used it to kill small game with.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:51 AM
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Default Not a bad idea actually.

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Originally Posted by Liberty";p=&quot View Post
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Originally Posted by mpotter";p=&quot View Post
I can still see no reason why even single shot rifles that look like automatic assault weapons should be legalized. There is no reason for any guns really other than to kill.
Using this logic, I guess you would also see no reason why Ferraris should be legalized. There is no reason for those cars other than to drive really, really fast.
Actually a system with a special driving licenses for high performance cars could be in order in some cases. Especially the drivers medical condition would need to have a closer check in these case. High speedes require extremely fast reactions. I am not really proposing that that there should be such driving licences but it could merit a serioues discussion. I am aware that your purpose what to show an analogy but it failed since your analogy turned out to be an actually useful idea. Besides, weapon permits, when these exists, have limitations to what the permit holder may have. So a "Ferrari gun" does indeed require a more potent permit then a simple handgun.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:51 AM
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Default Interesting

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Originally Posted by catzmeow";p=&quot View Post
Another kid was shot in the head by a round from a .22 and walked away from the scene. Due to the way that a .22 fires, the bullet spun around, following the path of his skull, going in one side and out the other side without causing significant brain damage. No one who really wants a gun for legitimate self-protection is going to buy a .22.
My father had a friend whose mother tried to commit suicide by shooting herself in the head with a .22. The exact same thing happened.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:53 AM
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Default speaking of .22s, though...

When I was a kid, my dad used to let us shoot muskrats in our pond (they are hell on a dam) with a small, daisy 2201 legacy with an octoganal barrel. I loved shooting that gun, it had very little kick and was pretty easy for a kid to aim...

(Yes, I am a farm girl, but have only seen .22 handguns in the city).

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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:54 AM
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Default EuP

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Well, that's good to know...
I find it so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotter
No I do not hunt. You are correct. My father is a big hunter, and I used to fake hunt with him when I was younger, but I never once shot the guns at anything other than a target. I personally can't bring myself to kill anything. I buy my meat pre-killed by someone else.
Ok. I've no problem with that. The fact is, though, that .22s and shotguns have limited hunting applications. You can kill a deer with the right kind of shotgun and slugs, but a rifle is far superior, and .22s are only good for squirrels and the similar.
For your information a good hunter doesn't need anything better than a shotgun to kill a deer. My dad chooses to use a 12 gauge shotgun when he hunts deer or a 20 gauge if he has a sore shoulder that day, but he always manages to bring deer home every gun season. Also, to prove this point even more, he is able to bring home deer every bow season as well. He is a good hunter, and he does not have to use assault weapons to do it.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:55 AM
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Default Actually, Liberty, I left out a word from that posting...

In the shooting I described, there was NO significant brain damage. We're not sure if that was due to the kid having very little brain to begin with...or some other factor.

I know I shouldn't joke around about this, it's a serious subject...guess you had to be there.

Is your friend's mom okay? I don't really know that much (technically speaking) about guns. My bro, who is a physics major, explained to me that it's something to do with the spin the barrel of a .22 caliber handgun puts on the bullet.

Catz
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