Iraq at odds with US over troop presence beyond 2008 - Page 2

BigRed · #11 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRelevant

Last time I checked we already had 'permanent' bases in Turkey and SA and we also are bookending Iran with Afghanistan, as well as the ships in the Gulf.Go look at a map,Irans already practically surrounded anyway.Iraq is not a necessity from a tactical standpoint for any attack on Iran.Although personally I think the Iraqis will sign an agreement that allows us a security presence for years making your entire point here moot,they have every right to have a say in the process,which they have been voicing(at the behest of Iran IMO).In the end we will be in Iraq a while at some level,those folks need bases so the bases will remain with them.If its 5 or 10 years then I guess the bases will be there for 5 or 10 years.Is that permanent? Not by the dictionary defintion.

Where are these resources you speak of?Iraq oil being pumped at postwar record level but were seeing none of it.In addition have you paying attention to who is doing the negotiation and decision making for the oil contracts (export and develpomental) in Iraq.Hint: its not us,its them.

If the Iranians insist on bringing their country to war then Iraq will be a nice staging area.If the Iraqis allow us to use their country then so be it.If not then we,ve got plenty of options out there boss.

Please provide us with some semblence of proof that US will have bases there forever,ie permanently.

Sadly for you the Iraqis wont be the antagonists to the US you are hoping for.Shortly they will sign an agreement and the US get on with the business of finishing the tasks at hand.

Maybe youre just confused about the meaning of permanent.

Because every time we create a base, it usually is permanent. Not to mention, we built like a half billion dollar embassy there.

BuckNaked · #12 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 12:21 PM

I actually hope you are right!? I am not anti war either by the way, I am anti-this war for profit, strictly because it is not our war to win, it is them who has to make the changes necessary to make it work. From the looks of it they are wanting us out so they can get to the business at hand, finding out who is really in charge!

We cannot "do" these things for them! Period! They have too! Unfortunately for the last year we have been arming (bribing) the very people who were attacking us only a few months earlier. People, who are biding their time, people who will fight for control once we are no longer in the equation. People that will go to war with each other, as they always have, and will continue to do so long after we are gone. Don’t pretend you have a crystal ball that says these people’s personalities have been enlightened by this experience! You can also stop pretending we are over there looking out for their best interests. That is extremely uncharacteristic of the individuals who have been choking the chicken on this fiasco since day one!

I have seen nothing that shows otherwise!

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/08/iraq.main/index.html

But where is the money? Yep oil is being pumped out, shipped out, there are even rumors that Kuwait is cashing in and has been slant drilling into the southern fields, and on top of all that ½ of the oil is missing??? Even if only half of this is true (neither of us have the capabilities of determining the truth one way or the other), where are the profit and why isn’t it being used on, oh I don’t know, repairing Iraq??

Sadistic-Savior · #13 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 01:09 PM

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Oh lord. When the Iraqis cooperate with us theyre lap dogs and puppets,when they attempt to remain the soveriegn entity they are theyre burdens.

My thoughts exactly. There's just no pleasing some people.

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If a sovereign nation is asking us to leave because they feel by then or right now they can handle their country we are obligated to do so.

I agree.

So far they have not done that and seem unlikely to do it in the foreseeable future.

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If we don’t, then are true intentions will be revealed!

But when that doesn't happen, it will not change the minds of you people anyway. You'll just assume that we coerced them in back rooms or something. America is always guilty by default with you people.

Ultimately, you are hoping for problems (IMO) because you have nothing to gain politically from success in Iraq. You are yearning for an opportunity to say "I told you so" and motivate America to embrace your liberal nanny-state/appeasement ideology.

junjobx2199 · #14 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

My thoughts exactly. There's just no pleasing some people.

I agree.

So far they have not done that and seem unlikely to do it in the foreseeable future.
That surge is working just fine! just fine I tell ya!

But when that doesn't happen, it will not change the minds of you people anyway. You'll just assume that we coerced them in back rooms or something. America is always guilty by default with you people.

No , just the Guy who had closed door meetings about our energy policies , oops doesn't look suspicious in the least! Also see (Quote George w Bush)

"One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade·.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency."

Ultimately, you are hoping for problems (IMO) because you have nothing to gain politically from success in Iraq. You are yearning for an opportunity to say "I told you so" and motivate America to embrace your liberal nanny-state/appeasement ideology.

No @#$#-bag I want to say "Grandson this is when America Regained its Glory"

Kenny · #15 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 06:31 PM

The fact is, Iraq is an independent nation and if their new government want our troops out, they have every right after 2008 to deport our troops out of their country. We must wake up to the reality that Iran will have influence and economic power in Iraq. It is inevitable and we are already seeing signs that we are no long welcomed in Iraq by the people nor the government. Which is reasonable due to the U.S. military record of mistakingly killing innocent citizens, which is not totally our troops fault since our government has put them into a situation that is or similar to a civil war where their targets are unknown.

So if you support the idea of democracy, you support the idea of the representatives of the Iraqi people deciding if they wish to remain occupied by US troops or not. Lets not be hypocrites, If Iraq want us out then it is time to leave. Iraqi politicians are not naive and they certainly know what is in the best interest of the Iraqi government & their people. I believe that Iraq still needs U.S. presence, but it is totally their option after 2008.

Fear-And-Loathing · #16 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 06:38 PM

Good, I want the Iraqi's to prove to us their government is independent of America and doesn't need us to support them, that was the goal. The Iraqi's with their large trade and budget surplus's will have plenty of money to keep buying American weapons. The country will have a bit of trouble readjusting but they will figure it out, otherwise they would not be saying so.....

Iraq will return to the stage as a counter to Iran, which is the logical progression point, another American backed democratic government in the Middle East stopping Iran.

BuckNaked · #17 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

America is always guilty by default with you people.

Distrorted dribble! Following blindly, and never questioning elected public servants is not American!

MrRelevant · #18 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Distrorted dribble! Following blindly, and never questioning elected public servants is not American!

Blindly....lol

Youre the one who actually admits you can find no signs of progress.Interestingly enough thats the same take as the MSM mostly so I guess we know the lengths you go to find out the 'truth'.The only way these days ,with the internet and all, you cant find progress is to not look for it.It comes from all sort of sources....folks serving being an easy reliable one or independent embeds whove spent considerable time reporting.

Its fine to question authority but to deny the obvious makes you look a little foolish.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

BuckNaked · #19 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 06:09 AM

Where did I say there was no progress being made?

The most progress has been made in the last 10-11 months, the rest of the time was a cluster (*)(*)(*)(*) from the get go! Ya see when you try and milk something for all it's worth for profit it does tend to get out of hand!

If we would have went in there with, oh I don't know, "a plan" (other than the profiteering one), we wouldn't have to be trying so hard now. They (Iraqis) might have had a better hold on things by now, of course that is just speculation.

MrRelevant · #20 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Where did I say there was no progress being made?

The most progress has been made in the last 10-11 months, the rest of the time was a cluster (*)(*)(*)(*) from the get go! Ya see when you try and milk something for all it's worth for profit it does tend to get out of hand!

If we would have went in there with, oh I don't know, "a plan" (other than the profiteering one), we wouldn't have to be trying so hard now. They (Iraqis) might have had a better hold on things by now, of course that is just speculation.

Cmon now buck,dont crap out now.

Youre being armchair Qb again.

To say there was there was no planning is naive.Chain of command issues and conflicts of interests compunded the problems with the plans they had.

Of course now everybody can list out the mistakes and their consequences.Things as basic as ROEs werent properly formulated until the last few years.Id say your assertion that the mistakes were actually purposely implimented to benefit corperations certianly should be supported by some facts,no? Or is this also like the Easter Bunny and 911-unprovable.

Its a fact that when given the opportunity most beneficiaries of govt assets will often abuse the system if possible sadly but to tie it into one govt wide/corporate American conspiracy needs some factual backing IMHO.

Its no different with the folks who get the earmarks or welfare receipients...milking the sugar daddy govt.IMO there should be stricter watchdogs for all govt funding,esp massive war funding,even as a republican Im for investigations to find the culprits,and sanctioning them harshly.

I apologize for accusing you of not seeing the clear progress but Im left to wonder why youd like see the military leave now that weve got the upper hand and the Iraqis solidly on their way.

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