I know some Arabic. But if I have a question about the Quran's words or phrasing. I ask my wife.

She memorized the Quran as a child and reads and writes the language.


You are correct CptnRodent, the bias of the translater can dramatically influence the meaning of the translation.

Much more than say the various translations of the Bible.

Much of the problem stems from the fact that when the Quran was origionally translated into the European languages. It was done by Catholic Priests, Christian missionarys, after the Crusades, and later by anti-Islamic Western scholars.

These people translated the Quran to read in the most negative interpretation possible. These have been passed down ower the centurys and codified in the West as authentic and reliable.

That's why Islamophobic bigots can quote from Western versions of the Quran and make it spew nonsense, that is not recognizable to Arabic speaking people.

But it's NOT the "Islamophobic bigots" who are committing the atrocities daily in the name of Allah, it's Muslims who are doing that: since 9/11 there have been 11,214 Islamic terrorist attacks (from www.thereligionofpeace.com)

It's the Muslims themselves who are, using the Islamic texts, committing atrocities like this, on a daily basis:
"The chief of police in the southern Iraqi city of Basra has warned of a campaign of violence against women carried out by religious extremists.
It has, Maj-Gen Abdul Jalil Khalaf said, included threats, intimidation and even murder.
Some victims were dressed in indecent clothes by their killers or had notices attached to them, he said."
From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7095209.stm


One problem is that "Ninety percent of the world's Muslims do not speak Arabic as their native language."

This is not true, or else WESTERNIZED Muslims would be committing the worst atrocities, but it's generally Muslims from the most non-Western, Islamic-majority countries that commit the worst atrocities.

For instance, this article tells how the jizya is being charged non-Muslims (as per Quran 9:29) in Iraq, upon the threat of death:
"BAGHDAD -- Despite the chaos and sectarian violence raging across Baghdad, Farouq Mansour felt relatively safe as a Christian living in a multiethnic neighborhood in the capital.
Then, two months ago, al-Qaida gunmen kidnapped him and demanded that his family convert to Islam or pay a $30,000 ransom. Two weeks later, he paid up, was released and immediately fled to Syria, joining a mass exodus of Iraq's increasingly threatened Christian minority.
"There is no future for us in Iraq," Mansour said.
Although Islamic extremists have targeted Iraqi Christians before, bombing churches and threatening religious leaders, the latest attacks have taken on a far more personal tone. Many Christians are being expelled from their homes and forced to leave their possessions behind, police, human rights groups and residents said."
From: http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007...1_525_6_07.txt

Another fine example of the religion of pieces

__________________
Aint but three things in this world thats worth a solitary dime,
But old dogs and children and watermelon wine.
Tom T. Hall
http://www.obamatruth.org/

If this is true, then Sunni Man, what is YOUR (different) interpretation of Quran 9:5, and 9:29?




Here (again) are my 3 versions, which clearly call for the supremacist subjugation of the Infidels, such as CptnRodent:

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

You do realize this was during a specific war almost 1400 years ago?

Nice! "The Religion of Pieces" (as in pieces of body parts strewn around a blown-up DVD shop or music shop that dared to sell "un-Islamic" material, that happens in Pakistan and the Palestinian Territories with regular frequency.)


One of many articles showing these atrocities:

NPR: ISLAMIC GROUP'S WRATH STOKES FEARS IN GAZA
"....The attacks started in October 2006, and they’ve stretched from north to south, hitting a wide range of businesses in the seaside Palestinian territory. Modern music stores, DVD outlets, restaurants and cultural centers have all been hit. In December, a Rafah cafeteria that allowed card playing was torched.
Rami, who didn’t want his full name used, owns a DVD store in the south-central Gaza city of Khan Younis. He said that at first, he laughed off an anonymous cell phone call threatening to attack his small business for selling allegedly racy movies, including Western titles. Then another call came...."

From: http://hikm.wordpress.com/2007/03/05...fears-in-gaza/

If Muslims could become more "Westernized", then many of these atrocities would stop, as they'd move into the modern world, where, uh, music and DVDs are not considered evil....amazing.

A recent headline in the NYT read: "Amish terrorist group blows up 20 shops for selling DVDs that are 'un-Amish'"

NO, I'M JUST KIDDING, TO MAKE A POINT.

Yes, the whole world needs to become Americanized.

That will solve the worlds problems!!!

Finally, some specifics in your replies!!

So, from Quran 9:29, Christians and Jews are NOT inferior, and Islam should NOT rule over them, and they should NOT pay the jizya? Is that what you're saying?

Also, if it's just about some war a zillion years ago, why not simply remove it from your Quran as apparently it's irrelevant now, eh?

Muslims in Iraq, who are forcing Christians to pay the jizya, do NOT think it's irrelevant now!

Mohammad clearly was a supremacist, as evidenced by the Quran....or were non-Muslims allowed to rule equally, ALONGSIDE Muslims, as equals, hmmmm?

Isn't democracy a better alternative than the totalitarianism of Islamic Sharia Law, as spelled out in the supremacist Islamic texts? Please join us in democracy, equality, freedom, and women's rights.