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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2004, 01:36 PM
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Default Very Cogent comment!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raina04";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
"You want to blame the insurgents? Fine, they pulled the trigger. But they wouldn't be attacking our troops if we weren't in their country."
They know that if they stopped pulling the trigger, we could get the place rebuilt and get out of there. The longer they fight us, the longer we're gonna stay.
I like people that cut straight to the heart of a complicated subject and get it right with no frills!!! Right on Raina
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2004, 05:33 PM
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Default .

http://www.iht.com/articles/537688.html

utahtex, paul krugman has you pegged.

If you want to think the US (read donald rumsfield) involvement in iraq in the 1980s was not a big deal, that is your view. I can take the opposite view and not be deceiving myself.

Also, how to you "justify" the babies being born with severe deformities
because of DU? Is it their moms fault for getting pregnant in iraq?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2004, 07:01 PM
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Default .

Pretty misleading and I don't think you're facts are entirely in line.

I don't really think you know anything about DU ammunition. I have worked with it extensively in the Navy before we switched over to tungsten ammo for the Mk15 Phalanx Close In Weapon System.

Please show me these case studies where fired DU ammunition has been the direct link in birth defects in Iraq.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2004, 07:28 AM
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Default .

ANy link i gave would be scoffed at...but...what are your theories as to why there are so many birth defects and why so many of the gulf war vets are on some form of disability(per veterens affairs)? If there are other reasons i would like to know.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2004, 07:48 AM
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Default It couldn't possibly be the residual effects of chemical

weapons released by Saddam, the fumes from the burning oil wells, or the host of other reasons listed by any reputable scientific examination of this problem and the factors that led to it, could it?

Nah.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2004, 08:09 AM
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Default Correllation does not prove causality

Quote:
Originally Posted by logosoco";p=&quot View Post
Also, how to you "justify" the babies being born with severe deformities because of DU?
I'm always fascinated when people can just throw around a statement like this with no proof to back it up. I am aware that many are blaming DU for birth defects, but I have seen absolutley no evidence presented that the blame is justified. So far, it is merely a matter of assumptions, people parroting those assumptions, and others accepting them blindly as "truth".

This is much like what Rachel Carson started when she jumped to the wrong conclusion about DDT in the early 60's. What happened? First hysteria, followed by a world-wide ban on a cheap, safe and effective pesticide, resulting in millions of preventable Malaria deaths in Africa - and it's still happening today.
http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:18 AM
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Default Catch 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahTex";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raina04";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
"You want to blame the insurgents? Fine, they pulled the trigger. But they wouldn't be attacking our troops if we weren't in their country."
They know that if they stopped pulling the trigger, we could get the place rebuilt and get out of there. The longer they fight us, the longer we're gonna stay.
I like people that cut straight to the heart of a complicated subject and get it right with no frills!!! Right on Raina
What you are suggesting here is a catch 22. So if we weren't there they wouldn't be pulling the trigger, but if they weren't pulling the trigger we could get out of there? How about we shouldn't have been there in the first place to begin this cycle of events?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2004, 07:17 PM
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Default .

Quote:
Originally Posted by logosoco";p=&quot View Post
ANy link i gave would be scoffed at...but...what are your theories as to why there are so many birth defects and why so many of the gulf war vets are on some form of disability(per veterens affairs)? If there are other reasons i would like to know.
Very nice redirect to lay the burden of proof on me when it was, in fact, you that made the insane accusation in the first place...
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:49 PM
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Default I agree

"Bush didn't pull the trigger or lob the grenade."

THEN or NOW, I agree
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logosoco";p=&quot View Post
ANy link i gave would be scoffed at...but...what are your theories as to why there are so many birth defects and why so many of the gulf war vets are on some form of disability(per veterens affairs)? If there are other reasons i would like to know.
Even if you run the risk of someone debunking your claim, it's only natural for someone to ask for some type of source from where you base your claim. Otherwise you're just asking us to "go with you" based solely on your opinion. Please don't take it personally, but I for one need more than that.

A good rule of thumb to use is to try to find other sources and present multiple sources, post whatever sources you can despite their sources, or just qualify it with some disclaimer that there's not a lot of source to go with. There's no shame in stating, "I don't believe I have anything to base my opinion on... I just feel this way." No one can fault you for simply stating your opinion. (well, they could try I suppose, but you are entitled to form your own opinion)
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