Here is what got me thinking about this topic:
So, has the Republican Party, epitomized in the new century by George Bush II, been pushing the US away from being a pillar of democracy, human rights and respect for International law?
Has this Republican regime held that there are international norms that MUST be protected at all costs, and that those, like Saddam and Milosevic, who over-step the line should be brought to swift justice? But has it at the same time, by its actions and utterances, clearly signalled that there is ONE EXCEPTION, when these international standards need NOT be respected?

And is that one glaring exception when these global pillars of democracy stand in the way of the Republican perception of what is in the best Interests of the US? In other words, are there a set of sacred rules for the entire planet, except when they stand in the way of the US doing what it wants to?

In attempting to reach a conclusion, I make reference to what I think are certain key milestones of change in the US ethical framework, but which I tend to view as a broad trend not as individual issues:

1) The Republican disdain for international law, exemplified by their wish to dilute the Geneva Convention, but only when it suits them, of course http://lawofwar.org/Torture_Memos_analysis.htm
2) The supporting of Saddam Hussein when he had already shown all of his tyrant credentials
3) The many US vetos of UNSC resolutions since the early 1980s, overwhelmingly under Republican presidents, of UN resolutions that included calls for UN observers to reduce violence, condemnation of acts of violence, establishment of monitoring facilities, expression of concern over the killing of UN employees, condemnation of assassinations, and illegal occupations of territory.
4) The support for right-wing (largely military) dictatorships, particularly in South America, when these totally undemocratic regimes had shown themselves to be capable of mass murder and approval of rape, pillage and a screed of blatant human rights violations.
5) The disdain for the outcome of democratic elections when the victor did not suite US interests (this has been going on since the end of WW II)
6) The total destruction of the Nicaraguan economy in the 1980s.
7) The conflict between the US Constitution, the “ultimate law of the land” and George the Younger’s Patriot Act
8 ) The bizarre obsession with Cuba while courting countries such as Suharto’s Indonesia, Musharraf’s Pakistan and China. This is perhaps epitomized by the accusation by a State Department intelligence official named Christian Westermann of John Bolton of trying to pressure him on intelligence estimates of Cuba's biological weapons capabilities -- coinciding with charges that intelligence data about Iraq had also been cooked
9) The invasion of Panama to kidnap a thug, Noriega, who was convicted in Florida for crimes committed when he was on the CIA payroll
10) The 2002/2003 spinning of data on Iraq to the point where a false view was sold to Congress, the American people and the World as justification for invasion.

Thomas Carothers wrote, “Democracy is acceptable if and only if it is consistent with strategic and economic interests”. Are the Republicans holding up this concept ever higher for the entire world to see and shake its collective head at the hypocrisy being shown by the last remaining (2008 – pre-Olympics) superpower?

So, here's the question: "Are the Republicans pushing the US to become a rogue state?" Or are the Democrats just as guilty and rogue national status is desired by both main parties?

The US is already a rogue nation. We support tyrannical regimes and violate the rights of the People around the world and have for decades. Certainly that qualifies us as a rogue nation if anything does.

Both Republicans and Democrats have supported a US foreign policy of imperialistic interventionism in the sovereign affairs of other nations and that qualifies both parties as supporters of the rogue state status of the United States.

That does not imply that we cannot mend our ways and start supporting the rights of all People and stop our tyrannical policies (as we should).

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Soldiers swear to protect and defend the Constitution with their lives.

Politicians swear to protect and defend the Constitution with someone else's life.

i'm sad about the way the USA is going. The constitution and the founding fathers have never wanted something like this. I think the problem is that the USA can choose to start a war without alot of implications. The price is "low" and thus war is a option.

Also, i think that the minds of most Americans have changed. What used to be justice has now become revenge. The same can be seen in the US justice system. Europe has had it's wars, as did Asia. They've become more or less stable societies. It seems that America needs a very bloody war to understand the implications it has.

Well, if the US isn't a rogue nation at best it's a fair weather friend. We make agreements to break them depending on what administration is in office at the time and which way the political/public opinion wind blows. Beware to the nations that make deals with us...

It's sad that we don't have forward thinking leaders with the country's best interests at heart. We're short sighted and can't seem to see what's beyond our nose or anticipate what could be over the horizon.

Going into Iraq was right (punishment for breaking the UN sanctions as written). What wasn't right was the way and the reasoning for why we did it. UN sanctions were reason enough. Just spank them hard, no reason for regime change. We can speculate all we want on the exact reasons but we'll probably never know. We've opened the box now and have to deal with the demons that came out.

War is something that should never be taken lightly. It's unpredictable under some of the best circumstances. Unless you're absolutely willing to go all the way (Dropping a tactical nuke or worse) to put an end to it and win, you should never ever get involved. It's like any fight you'd get into. You're not going to tie one hand behind your back and take a beating. You're going to do to do one of three things. Negotiate, run away or fight like hell. If you're not willing don't ever do it. Ever! Never pull a gun unless you are willing to use it. Don't bluff unless you're willing to back it up if the bluff fails.

We've got enough problems here to keep us busy without going and getting involved in problems elsewhere... Fix your own house before advising your neighbor on how to fix his....

"become"?

Sorry, Rip Van Winkle, but the "become" part came and went. The only people who don't consider us a rogue state are Americans.....the stupid ones.

The only reason the world hasn't stopped us is because we can still kick their asses

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"For time and the world do not stand still. Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth"
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
-JFK

Knight Errant of the Simian Order
Truth - Justice - Comedy

Well call me stupid then.

We lead the world. The world follows.

Want to know why Obama trashes his own nation? Read this thread and you can figure out why.

We are not a rogue nation. We are the only source of moral intergrity on this planet left. Who is gonna do what we can do? France? Germany? China? South America? Africa? Europe?

No, they call us when some event happens. And then turn around and call us the bad guy, when we do something about it.

If this nation is so horrible, there are other continents to live on, get to steppin' and dont let the door hit ya on the way out. Me? I will continue to push forward, b/c when the chips are down, the only country people are going to look to is the USA.

This self-degradation is sickening.

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If I had the option of voting 2000 and 2004 over again, I would still vote Bush.

I'll give you a second chance

We used to lead the world, but that ended with the Iraq invasion.....where have you been? Have you ever read a news story from outside of the US?
Now we act, the world says no...then just watches because they know there is nothing they can do about it.
If you have evidence of the 200+ countries that we used to lead, still following us, please provide it.

He doesn't trach this nation. He is an optimist, and hopes to make it great again....I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into thinking that saying something can be improved is "trashing", but it's not.

If a CEO says that a company is doing something wrong and he can make it better, is that trashing?

hmmmmm

Only source of moral integrity?

OK...now that is stupid

Who called us? When, why?

Then....did we react? Probably not, we have our own priorities, and they have nothing to do with what the rest of the world thinks.

This nation is not horrible. Only people that think that there is only one way of thinking and acting, and refuse to open their minds are horrible.

[quote
This self-degradation is sickening.[/quote]

Self-degredating? Whom?

I love this country, and I think it can be the greatest nation in the world again.

But to think that it is right now is self-dilusional, which is equally sickening to the educated.

__________________
"For time and the world do not stand still. Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth"
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
-JFK

Knight Errant of the Simian Order
Truth - Justice - Comedy

the founding fathers have had a far further horizon then most administrations today have.

Yes making good decissions are not easy. But all the problems are being put on the long run. The deficit, the global warming issues. Hell let's talk economics, what have most presidents decided which made the economy stronger in the long run?

That check of a 1000 dollar isn't a structural solution. I think it is correct what is said above. Decisions made tend to be good in the short term, but disastrous in the long term.

There are over 5 million people that have died because of US interventions in THEIR nations since WW II.

How anyone can call that moral is beyond me.

Since the day the United States became a superpower we have abused that status around the world causing death and destruction wherever we go. I would say it is time for us to turn our backs on being a "superpower" and just become a plain old nation equal to all other nations in the world.

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Soldiers swear to protect and defend the Constitution with their lives.

Politicians swear to protect and defend the Constitution with someone else's life.

Right, we have to regress our success so everyone else can keep up.

Why do people feel guilty for being successful?

UNbelievable.

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If I had the option of voting 2000 and 2004 over again, I would still vote Bush.