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11-15-2008, 09:56 AM
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What's happening to GM right now is what will be happening to the United States when more boomers begin retiring and need that Social Security and Medicare. And if we argue that those companies that cannot pay their bills deserve to die, does that mean the U.S. deserves to die at some point? It's a slippery slope, IMO. Americans wail when someone suggests raising taxes. And it's rather obvious that we are not going to "grow" our way out of the deficit and debt hole that we're in. So where are we headed? Maybe it's time for me to change my handle to JagWarus Maximus and prepare for the Chinese to arrive at the gates to collect their due. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I've just had a bad week. But I think if we look closely at GM, the reflection in the chrome is that of the United States. jm2c
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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn." 
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11-16-2008, 07:33 AM
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On speaking about the proposed bailout of the automotive sector on the McLaughlin Group this morning, Pat Buchanan said, "If the Republican Party kills General Motors and Ford, goodbye and good luck."
I believe what Pat was saying was more along the lines of, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." If GM fails and the popular perception links it to Bush and the Republicans, true or not, then I believe Pat is dead on target.
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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."
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11-16-2008, 08:57 PM
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I wonder.. if Toyota and BMW will build tanks and jeeps for the US Army if the need ever arises again, the way Ford and GM did back in ww2.
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The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts "When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan "Did you know that Republicans are stupid and evil?" -Bill O'Reilly, Feb 2010 Last edited by Tedminator; 11-16-2008 at 08:58 PM.
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11-16-2008, 09:15 PM
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The reason the Big 3 are going out of business is because of the American people. They wouldn't dare buy a cheap high mpg, long lasting diesel-run American car. They think it's "cool" and "hip" to drive around in a little rice burner because movie stars made it look cool. They also have this preconceived notion that American cars are actually worse quality. When in all actuality, the difference in quality is extremely minimal. Not on that, companies like Honda have flat out refused certain survey agencies to interview their customers about the quality of car they produce. The dies they use to make their vehicles are laughable, as are their standards. Then of course we have the "well my Toyota truck has a higher re-sale than the Dodge Ram!". Well no (*)(*)(*)(*) shirley! That's what happens when demand for American cars is low, and demand for Japanese cars is high. Welcome to economics 101! Glad you payed attention in the 4th grade. The real reason the Big 3 are going out of business, because Americans have no clue what they want, nor do they care.
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I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road. Occam's principle of unimaginative thinking. --- Quote:
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11-16-2008, 09:49 PM
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I think I have to disagree with you GC. Perhaps it's because you live in Michigan that you were sheltered a few years ago when everyone was demanding that the US automakers build new, fuel efficient cars, and the response was apathy.
Also, I think that the failure of the US automakers comes from a clear demand indicator, ie indication that they know what they want, and the automakers can't deliver. Also, I'm not sure how "easy" it is to just up and make fuel efficient vehicles. Otherwise, there wouldn't be talk about billions for retooling and a decade for design.
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11-16-2008, 09:58 PM
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However, that still does not exclude the fact that the American people have never wanted to purchase diesel vehicles. Look at the statistics of total American vehicles which use Diesel. Then look at how much more efficient Diesel is, and compare our use to Europe's use. They need the billions to retool in American plants, because American plants are not capable of supporting the funds to retool. Plants across seas (like Ford plants in Great Britain) are already tooled to produce fuel efficient vehicles, because Britain likes to purchase those cars. Plus it's cheaper to sell them there 
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I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road. Occam's principle of unimaginative thinking. --- Quote:
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11-16-2008, 10:09 PM
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A couple items to note: Europeans I believe don't all buy fuel efficient vehicles because of the kindness of their hearts, it's because of infrastructure, government regulation, fuel taxes, fuel prices, etc.
To say that there wasn't a demand in America is misleading. There was a demand, but due to cost structure and demand structure as shaped by the free market, gas guzzlers were the easiest way to make a quick buck (I could make a much more in depth argument to that nature, but we'll just call it too late to get that far into it). If this just isn't the perfect example for government interference in the free market, I give up on the whole concept.
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11-16-2008, 10:19 PM
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 Switch grass is definitely a better way to go.
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I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road. Occam's principle of unimaginative thinking. --- Quote:
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11-16-2008, 10:26 PM
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