US Auto Manufacturers Deserve To Go Out Of Business!!! - Page 3

A11 1N · #21 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

The public wants SUVs and trucks, which is why people buy them. Then they complain about gas prices.

?

American and foreign companies have comparable mpg in all their cars, there are no extreme differences. I have an 86 cutlass supreme, it averages 28-30 mpg with a little olds 307 engine (will be swapped for some muscle in the future). The car has 300,000 miles on it. If you know how an engine works, american cars are much better and more reliable than foreign ones. This is why SUV's are so popular, they still have the american v8's, you can't beat them for ease of work, power, reliability, cost, mileage, etc. all across the board.

GM is ahead of the curve compared to many other companies, a fully functional plug in will be available in 2010. It will also not look like a jelly bean.

Only problem with your reasoning is that first part where you claim people are buying them. If people were purchasing the SUV's then the US auto industry would not need a bail out. Here is some reading material for ya

Quote:

Vehicle sales in the United States fell last month to their lowest level in 16 years, as consumers continued to shun large trucks because of high gas prices, and tight credit kept less creditworthy customers off lots.

Sales were down 13.2 percent, at a time when the companies had expected to begin seeing an improvement.

Instead, the five largest automakers each reported sales declines on Friday. Sales fell 26.1 percent at General Motors, the largest car company, while Chrysler, which used to be the third-largest, reported a 28.8 percent decline and came within a few thousand sales of falling to sixth place. The Ford Motor Company posted a 14.7 percent decline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/02/bu...yt&oref=slogin

A11 1N · #22 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

This was a question of averages, which foreign companies could not touch.

I don't see why we must limit it to the average model. Or am I missing something here?

commonsense · #23 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11 1N

Only problem with your reasoning is that first part where you claim people are buying them. If people were purchasing the SUV's then the US auto industry would not need a bail out. Here is some reading material for ya

Thank you for the material. The SUV has been headed for extinction the last few years. Still people buy them, why is that? Why are all the suburbanite villages overpopulated with SUVs? Because they like them, they are big, versatile, and reliable for their purpose.

commonsense · #24 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11 1N

I don't see why we must limit it to the average model. Or am I missing something here?

Yes, American companies' vehicles on average produce greater torque for pulling. Everyone knows this. I can outrun an M3 with a Z06, but it doesn't represent the entire American performance show across the board, does it?

A11 1N · #25 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

Thank you for the material. The SUV has been headed for extinction the last few years. Still people buy them, why is that? Why are all the suburbanite villages overpopulated with SUVs? Because they like them, they are big, versatile, and reliable for their purpose.

I understand what you are saying, however, the automotive market has shifted dramatically in the last 2 years alone. With the exponential increase of gas prices we are seeing a more consumer-conscious America when it comes to buying cars. You couple that with the recent recession and you can deduce that the days of gas-guzzling SUV's are coming to a close. It is the US auto industries fault for not bending with the curve. They are now being outpaced by foreign products and it serves them right.

Justice Strike · #26 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

I almost bought a dash from a Pajero to put in a project, would never buy the car though. Although it is a healthy little 4x4, remember it is a sponsored event. I could take a prius, put enough money in it, and win a dirt race. The right bronco would easily take it, anytime, anywhere.

talk about crappy. The escalade dashboard is made totally out of plastic... And... the dakar has been completed by alot of teams. some even amateurs that can only just pay the entrance fee. I think a american car is very very rare in that race... the only one that i can think of that actually completed the race was a hummer.... but even that was a daunting task, as the damages on the car where immense. Remember... the hummer is a military vehicle for that surface, but it was never designed to race at high speed on that surface or to sustain prolonged beating. the car simply is to heavy compared to a pajero or touareg.

Quote:

The problem with German cars I have seen is - engineering is great, but what happens when you need to Fix something? Special tools for everything, high price parts (even in europe), and you can't get to anything in the compartment. (although the american small cars were the same way until recently)

matter of choice. The parts last alot longer, less maintenance, it'll save you time. You only have to go to the garage every 60.000 km instead of every 20.000 and 40.000.

Ofcourse if you are a diy then the simpler the car the better.

A11 1N · #27 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

Yes, American companies' vehicles on average produce greater torque for pulling. Everyone knows this. I can outrun an M3 with a Z06, but it doesn't represent the entire American performance show across the board, does it?

Yes but why are we taking out of consideration the far ends of the spectrum? Fact is the higher-end better performance vehicles for both domestic and foreign manufacturers are out there to be purchased.

commonsense · #28 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11 1N

I understand what you are saying, however, the automotive market has shifted dramatically in the last 2 years alone. With the exponential increase of gas prices we are seeing a more consumer-conscious America when it comes to buying cars. You couple that with the recent recession and you can deduce that the days of gas-guzzling SUV's are coming to a close. It is the US auto industries fault for not bending with the curve. They are now being outpaced by foreign products and it serves them right.

I wouldn't blame the manufacturers on what the consumers wanted. They were in high demand, and they will become less so as time goes on. The american companies are not being outpaced, they are being outproduced in certain types of cars. Chrysler and GM are not behind any technology curve, they could easily begin to spit out hundreds of thousands of 60-80 mpg cars. But then Americans have identity crisis, we believe high mpg small American cars are unreliable, we also generally believe certain types of cars aren't able to be kept in our changing ecological standards. GM has small diesels capable of motorcycle mpg, but it's the consumer who stands in the way.

They need to produce something which seems entirely new and so far ahead of the curve. Much like the plug ins, it is more about the consumers' perception than reality.

We will also have legal issues with foreign companies' plants during wartime. If the government needs light vehicles or tanks, they aren't going to the Hyundai manufacturer.

commonsense · #29 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justice Strike

talk about crappy. The escalade dashboard is made totally out of plastic...

I like the new plasticky interiors, they never crack in the sun or fade. Not as durable for sure, but most people don't take out their interior parts to work. I will admit, Honda made some indestructible engines in the early nineties. Beyond that and older Mercedes diesels, I haven't really seen anything a cut above.

A11 1N · #30 (**permalink**) 09-12-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

I wouldn't blame the manufacturers on what the consumers wanted. They were in high demand, and they will become less so as time goes on. The american companies are not being outpaced, they are being outproduced in certain types of cars. Chrysler and GM are not behind any technology curve, they could easily begin to spit out hundreds of thousands of 60-80 mpg cars. But then Americans have identity crisis, we believe high mpg small American cars are unreliable, we also generally believe certain types of cars aren't able to be kept in our changing ecological standards. GM has small diesels capable of motorcycle mpg, but it's the consumer who stands in the way.

They need to produce something which seems entirely new and so far ahead of the curve. Much like the plug ins, it is more about what the consumer's perception than reality.

We will also have legal issues with foreign companies' plants during wartime. If the government needs light vehicles or tanks, they aren't going to the Hyundai manufacturer.

But there is a flaw in this reasoning. You say that the domestic industry is keeping up with the curve, that it has the ability to produce gas efficient vehicles but they do not because of a potential image crisis. Right now, though, the gas efficient car is what the consumer craves, regardless of the image that comes along with it. When the economy is strong, then there is room for luxury spending; right now that is not the case which is why every Toyota dealership in my home state has a 3+ month wait for a Prius. The demand for the Prius is huge and Toyota is keeping them off the market ensuring prices remain high.

It makes no sense for domestic manufacturers to keep gas efficient vehicles out of production while their competitors reap the benefits. They may never be able to produce that plug-in car because they are relying on a bail-out from the American government.

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