[quote]Look how long it took NASCAR minds to allow Toyota...even though they have been made in the USA for years. Just like our elections, this issue with the Big3 is like a sporting event and it's 'our' team against 'their' team.

Just as with other industries, car manufacturers probably need to consolidate. So with or without the bailout some of this might happen.

It is this and the embarrassment of our economy and what will happen if any of the Big3 fail.

I disagree with you on about the labor, plants and suppliers. If the Big 3 or any of them fail, ASSUMING there is demand for more cars than the remaining companies can produce, the remaining companies will increase production...but not necessarily with the same labor, facilities and suppliers. Further we ASSUME there is not enough demand, and one or all of the Big3 or any other car manufacturer fails, they may not be replaced at all. It's my contention we have too much supply and not enough demand which means one or more of them must close their doors.

Heck...I sent my letter in requesting a personal bailout and was happy to request only a few million. I told them I did not yet have a plan, but rest assured, they could trust that I will do the right thing with the money...

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

And it appears obvious that none of the other car manufacturers in the world have any interest in acquiring all or parts of the Big3...this alone should tell us something...

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

It tells me that their debt far exceeds their measly couple billion dollar market caps, and that it would make no sense to expand on lines that are successful by introducing competition. Or to the third party investor, there's no reason to invest in a failing business when there's no immediate avenue to become competable in that marketplace.

An acquaintance of mine did the same thing, only for much less money. He had loaned a woman $100 and she died before paying it back. He wrote letters to his Congressman Richard Shelby, and someone else whose name escapes me, to ask what he needed to do to reimbursed for this failed loan. An aide of Shelby's responded that one has to be a corporation to receive bailout funds.

So I guess the whole idea behind the bailout is trickle-down economics where the wealthy at the top get most of the money and then the rest of us get peed on.

__________________
Have you heard about McDonald's' new Obama Value Meal? Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it.
http://politicalfriends.prophpbb.com/

I'm guessing 99.9% that the bailout will happen so now I wonder what changes the Big3 will promise in terms of their business models??

They already have $25 billion to retool and build higher mpg cars so this can't be part of their dog and pony show.

Will they promise to drop 50% of their car models? Will they close facilities? Will they require a reduction in labor costs? Will they liquidate every non-essential piece of capital? Will they use suppliers around the world to obtain the best quality and lowest costs? Toyota who is kicking GM's ass has about 2500 dealerships while GM has something like 10,000...will 7000 dealerships close?

My position is that if the Big3 really...really...really return to Congress with viable plans to turn around their companies, then these plans must include those things I mentioned above and others which means really tough times for the Big3; terminate suppliers, job layoffs, facility closings, union termination, etc. Do you think people understand this should happen even with another $25 billion in bailout? I think most people believe the $25 billion will simply sustain the status quo.

I can't wait to see what the pansy-assed Congress does...

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

Hopefully all of the above

I think you are right, it is certain to go ahead once Obama takes control. The question is as you suggest, what concessions can be wrangled from the Big 3, or more importantly, the UAW.

This is the chance to get the health benefits aligned to workers generally as well as massive gas consumption reduction targets in place.

Bush is screwing up the opportunity by making any bail-out dependent upon free-trade with Colombia. I mean say what??!! This is really (and predictably) amateur blocking. Obama will be in control soon but Bush can use his last tenor of power to influence the outcome and he's dicking around playing playground bully.

I just saw a commercial for Ford's F150. They added foldout steps to the tailgate and the sides of the bed.

I think we're saved.

[quote]It's not concessions...it's common and smart business sense...and if the Big3 are further incapable of running a tight ship, then close their (*)(*)(*)(*)ed doors.

So far gas mileage has been a joke. The car manufacturers are allowed to play games with the numbers by averaging their small cars with large cars, etc. and I know from my experience no car I have purchased has ever gotten the mpg as shown on the window stickers!! For $25 billion I will expect an honest formula...not smoke and mirrors.

Although I don't agree with adding the Columbia free trade agreement to the Big3 bailout, I also don't believe free trade agreements are a bad thing. Obama will also be looking for trade agreements.

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

As an old person myself it's about time I have an assist to hike my fat ass into the work truck. In my earlier days they were called running boards and were kind of neat...but having them 270 degrees around the bed...give me a break...

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...