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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
i highlighted the portion of your post i am commenting on

how about sharing with us the portion of the responsibilities you see that the republicans share for this financial meltdown and bailout
Failing to regulate credit default swaps. These instruments rely heavily on the institution that insures the debt. I never realized AIG was a heavy player in these and this is what lead to their demise. It definitely contributed to Bear Sterns problems as well. If I'm ABC Bank and I have a billion dollars in swaps with Sterns as protection, investors in ABC are not well enough informed as to the reliability of these swaps because there are not strong enough disclosure requirements on the strength of Sterns. Additionally, Sterns is not required to disclose the risk of the swaps and can acquire as many as they like from regulated banks. Banks are obviously regulated for a reason, entities like Sterns should be subjected to the same regulation because those banks are relying on the strength of entities like Sterns.

Swaps are risky and should be more heavily regulated than other financial instruments with more oversight. Bush was against regulation of these (thanks to advice from SEC head Cox I'm sure). Swaps make sense and are a good hedge, but they need more oversight.
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All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
How come I have to keep paying my mortgage while all these idiots who bought into these other things get to keep their failed business risks?

So I guess now I can go out and overspend myself into oblivion and just wait for the calvary to charge in and bail me out?

The entire thing is a smokescreen.
It is bs, I hate the idea that we save those who are stupid while those who made the right decisions get nothing. You and I get to pay for the actions of idiots. Socialist policies indeed. I don't like it at all. Unfortunately now that I have read more about it, I find that bailing out AIG was indeed necessary. Now we need more regulation to ensure this never happens again. Hopefully not a knee jerk where they overdo it.
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All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaaaman View Post
Obama and his cronies will bail you out! Spend away! That's the democratic way!
here's a challenge for you jaaaman. explain to us what Obama's "contribution" was to cause this meltdown
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
here's a challenge for you jaaaman. explain to us what Obama's "contribution" was to cause this meltdown
Failing to support proposed reform and oversight of Mae and Mac.
__________________
All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
Failing to support proposed reform and oversight of Mae and Mac.

point out ANY reform which was offered. i know there was a bill offered up that mentioned fannie mae and freddie mac but that bill contained NOTHING which would have averted this financial meltdown. so, if you can find it, point it out as i want to see it and i am sure that interest is shared by others
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
point out ANY reform which was offered. i know there was a bill offered up that mentioned fannie mae and freddie mac but that bill contained NOTHING which would have averted this financial meltdown. so, if you can find it, point it out as i want to see it and i am sure that interest is shared by others
Reform #1 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...gewanted=print

Quote:
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

At the time, the companies and their allies beat back efforts for tougher oversight by the Treasury Department, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or the Federal Reserve. Supporters of the companies said efforts to regulate the lenders tightly under those agencies might diminish their ability to finance loans for lower-income families. (how ironic) This year, however, the chances of passing legislation to tighten the oversight are better than in the past.
At the time of the initial attempts to reform Clinton and the dem controlled congress said no. Here is what some dems said about Bush's prescient proposal at the time:

Quote:
''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.
''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.
How terribly ironic these quotes are. When does the dem congress ask for Barney the Failed to step down from his post? This buffoon is head of the committee? LOL!

And in 2005

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...90&tab=summary

Quote:
Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and ( reporting.
All three highlighted items are obviously applicable. The first relates to Mission related investing such as lending more to the poor. EXACTLY what happened here. The second highlighted item is obviously applicable, but mostly as it relates to the third and most important. http://www.ofheo.gov/media/archive/d...s/RBCFinal.pdf
Feel free to peruse the entire 568 page report, but essentially risked based capital test ensures that both entities are well enough capitalized to survive a 10-year stretch of bad loans. That obviously did not occur because neither entity was able to police itself.
__________________
All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
Reform #1 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...gewanted=print



At the time of the initial attempts to reform Clinton and the dem controlled congress said no. Here is what some dems said about Bush's prescient proposal at the time:



How terribly ironic these quotes are. When does the dem congress ask for Barney the Failed to step down from his post? This buffoon is head of the committee? LOL!

And in 2005

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...90&tab=summary



All three highlighted items are obviously applicable. The first relates to Mission related investing such as lending more to the poor. EXACTLY what happened here. The second highlighted item is obviously applicable, but mostly as it relates to the third and most important. http://www.ofheo.gov/media/archive/d...s/RBCFinal.pdf
Feel free to peruse the entire 568 page report, but essentially risked based capital test ensures that both entities are well enough capitalized to survive a 10-year stretch of bad loans. That obviously did not occur because neither entity was able to police itself.

i've read the entire report and it offers nothing which would have averted the meltdown now underway

and your 9/11/03 article by stephen labaton is laughable. Obama was not in federal office and the republicans controlled all aspects of governmental power ... that only reinforces how much the republicans are to blame for this financial upheaval which will foist the losses incurred by the elite on the wage earning public
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
i've read the entire report and it offers nothing which would have averted the meltdown now underway
That's because you are a 100% certified partisan. I doubt you understood anything you read. Which is why my specifics as to why it would have worked was replied with a general "oh it wouldn't have worked" response. The only thing that failed is your response as to why it wouldn't have prevented the crisis, or muted it. My response proved it, yours proved you're a partisan.

Quote:
and your 9/11/03 article by stephen labaton is laughable. Obama was not in federal office and the republicans controlled all aspects of governmental power ... that only reinforces how much the republicans are to blame for this financial upheaval which will foist the losses incurred by the elite on the wage earning public
You asked for ANY proposal, you even capitalized it. Yet forgot your own request apparently. The dems opposed the 2005 proposal which of course is why a healthy chunk falls directly on their laps. Apparently you are unfamiliar with the term filibuster. I can provide a dictionary definition if you like.

__________________
All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
That's because you are a 100% certified partisan. I doubt you understood anything you read. Which is why my specifics as to why it would have worked was replied with a general "oh it wouldn't have worked" response. The only thing that failed is your response as to why it wouldn't have prevented the crisis, or muted it. My response proved it, yours proved you're a partisan.



You asked for ANY proposal, you even capitalized it. Yet forgot your own request apparently. The dems opposed the 2005 proposal which of course is why a healthy chunk falls directly on their laps. Apparently you are unfamiliar with the term filibuster. I can provide a dictionary definition if you like.


ok
this is your typical nonsense
the '03 government controlled by republicans does not pass a measure intended to strengthen regulatory measures of freddie mac and fannie mae and it is the democrats' fault
amazingly stupid submission, even for you
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
ok
this is your typical nonsense
the '03 government controlled by republicans does not pass a measure intended to strengthen regulatory measures of freddie mac and fannie mae and it is the democrats' fault
amazingly stupid submission, even for you
The only nonsense was your response, general in delivery and lacking in knowledge. As usual. Stupid is someone who doesn't know what a filibuster is.

FYI, we both know you didn't read the report. Your response is evidence of that. Just opening the link would take you a few hours.
__________________
All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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