Guys, do you remember how we all made fun about the USSR collapsing?
Lack of money.

I'm afraid [yes I AM AFRAID], it's USA time today, and the rest of the "free" world with it.
I am pis$ed. Thank you for liberating... but in the end: No thanks.
Just vote GOP for more sheet.
My granddaughter will remember you.

The problem as I see it is that capitalism killed itself. I have mentioned The Shock Doctrine about three times on this forum and this will be number four. If you really want to know what happened read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein, an economist educated at the London School of Economics.

I read the book a year ago and it blew my mind. Klein said it was going to happen and she said why it was going to happen. Here we are and Klein was bang on. She was 100% correct.

Here's more from Naomi Klein. The worst part is these bastards are not finished yet. The bailout isn't going to make everything better. You are about to be saddled with a debt so massive that you won't even be able to afford dreams.

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You, you, and you, panic. The rest of you follow me.

Last book read: "The Gate House" ~ NelsonDeMille
Now reading: "Nam-A-Rama" ~ Phillip Jennings

We need to remove corporate influence from the legislative process. For too long the American citizen has taken a back seat in the determining the course of our governance. The corporate lobbies have helped draft legislation that:

deregulated market sectors that NEED regulation (energy/banking)

rewarded the outsourcing of American jobs with tax incentives and trade agreements that put the American worker at an impossible disadvantage

moved polution-heavy industries to other countries where it will continue to affect our health OUTSIDE of our influence

encouraged massive amounts of taxpayer money to flow to corrupt regimes in an attempt to open their borders to more trade.

steadily transfers more and more of the cost of running the country to the backs of the wage-earner.

There's a place for corporations in a capitalist society, but that place is not at the top of the ladder when it comes to govt influence. The founding fathers were dead-set against the type of corporate influence that we have beeen living with for years. A corporation is nothing more than a profit-driven contract. Giving corporations full Constitutional protections makes no sense whatsoever. A corporation will never serve in the military and possibly die for the country like a true citizen might. A corporation cannot vote or serve public office. It can live forever, and switch nationalities at the drop of a hat. It can inject capital into the election process in numbers that few private citizens can match. The downside to corporate control of the govt is becoming more obvious and more expensive by the day.

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Question: Are we not men?
Answer: We are DEVO!

We can thank Abe Lincoln for that.

This shows what little understanding you have of this problem. This problem is as much yours and mine as anyone elses. We as a society have to stop relying on credit. And greedy corporations, investors, and marketers, have to stop relying on inflated pricing as a means of fast profits. Again, we haven't seen the end of this crisis.

The best way each of us can contribute is to start becoming a minimalist society again. We don't have to give up everything in life, but we have to start realizing that if we can't pay cash for something, then we truly don't need it until we can. In efforts to compete globally and locally, commercial industries have been required to instill confusion in consumers over the difference between 'wants' and 'needs'. We actually have very few absolute needs, yet we desire some materials so much we have actually begun to think of them as needs, when they anything but.

Our own personal financial situations are a perfect mirror of both small, local businesses, local banks, regional business, regional banks, and of course, global corporations, global financial institutions and the government. They all have fallen into the trap of demanding faster, more efficient ways to get teh most possible with the least amount of effort. They feel that since technology grows faster that money should grow faster as well. The truth is, real money in a real economy moves slower than the pace we've required. So far, we've done nothing but create bubble economies over the last 25-30 years, and we keep paying the piper because of it.

Guess what, this will not end and regulation isn't suddenly going to fix it. Until our government pays itself OUT of its trillion dollar debts, and until American citizens pay themselves OUT of their trillion dollar debts, then we will not fix this problem. Again, the GOP is NOT the answer this year, as it has not been the answer the last 8 years. The old Republicans of 40 years ago would have prevented this, but the new generation seems hell bent on a government collapse (which plays into their hands pretty well). Imagine if Gore had won in 2000 and maintained both the tax levels AND budget that Clinton had in place. Instead of a 10 trillion dollar debt (which was only 3 trillion at the end of Clintons term) we would be close to even, since Clinton had a 300 billion surplus in place when he left office. Though I think Gore would have fought in Afghanistan, theres no way we would have been in a war with Iraq, which also would have saved money.

Simply by teh US keeping those trillions of dollars we now owe to overseas countries, the American dollar today would STILL be higher in value than the Euro and Yen. Imagine that. Not only do we still have very little national debt, our countries global financial position would still be better than any other country in the world by a significant amount. With a stronger dollar than anyone, now we can compete with imports and keep ALL of our prices down (gas, electric, medical, household items, homes, etc), which would lead to us not having to rely on so much credit individually or collectively. Imagine that!

So those of you thinking of voting for 4 more years of Bush policy, WAKE the HELL UP!!! It will not end with McCain. The GOP USED to be the party of fiscal responsibility, but Reagan and the Bushes ended that, and McCain is poised to fall right in line with those 3.

It's funny how any time someone brings up regulation on a given industry, the corporations and their political backers say that we can not get in the way of capitalism. Yet, every time they need a bail out, I never hear talk of letting the market take care of the problem. We have been living without true capitalism for some time.

As for what can you do....
The Economy is going down the tubes, not because of Gov't interference or because of lack of Gov't interference. What is happening right now is a direct result of doing business in the past and present without regard to the long term future. The way that finite resources have been measured as if we can continue to increase our use of them makes it appear that businesses were turning profit. The truth is that the cost of using those non-renewable resources is far greater than the price any company actually pays to use them. We have been doing business regardless of what it means for the world that our grandchildren will inherit. When you buy anything on credit you are borrowing it from a future generation, this is more true of large Gov't debts than it is small personal ones. The reason social security is failing, isn't because it is a bad system it is because every president starting with Reagan has borrowed money from SS to fund the deficit.

What can you do?
Get out of the Global economy and build a local one. Quit your job defend your land and grow food if you have land worth defending. Build a car that doesn't burn petrol. Stop giving money to irresponsible corporations by: not buying things you don't absolutely need, and if you have investments makes sure that you are invested with socially/environmentally responsible companies.
Don't drive when you don't absolutely need to.
(did you know Toyota's have more American made parts in them than Ford's do)
get together with your municipality to discuss what can be done to make your town as self sufficient as possible. If your home and your town are safe and localized economies than you personally will be fine and the rest of us might learn from your example.
WE DONT NEED SIX FIGURE SALARIES TO BE HAPPY
WE DO NEED SECURITY AND FOOD
YOU CAN NOT EAT MONEY AND SOON YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BUY FOOD WITH IT

You wouldn't happen to be a Ron Paul supporter, would ya? It'd explain your loose grasp on reality.

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I'M DOWN WITH G-O-P
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe every day is April 15."
Ronald Reagan

Barack's 66 Page List of Earmarks

This doesn't tell me a (*)(*)(*)(*) thing about what I should do.

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My enduring personal, original quote: Many mistake what should rightly be called "passivism" for pacifism. Pacifism and passivism are COMPLETELY different.
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Ronald Reagan was not the only one to suffer from Alzheimer's Disease. America did, too.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --President George W. Bush.
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Los Angeles voters=dumber than rocks.

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"I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center." - Kurt Vonnegut

Let the entire system crash.....it deserves it.

It's going to get very difficult anyway you look at it and it is this system that created it.

Oh,and yes i am a Ron Paul supporter.

ps;kinda feel like a slave now huh?

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin.
The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them,
but leave them the power to create deposits,
and with the flick of the pen they will
create enough deposits to buy it back again.
However, take it away from them, and
all the great fortunes like mine
will disappear and they ought to disappear, for
this would be a happier and better world to live in.
But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers
and pay the cost of your own slavery,
let them continue to create deposits."

Josiah Stamp