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Old 09-21-2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
A stock market is merely a convenient financial device whereby: (a) companies can raise capital for expansion and (b) investors can cash out of their investments.
This is 50% true.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2008, 09:37 AM
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wopper stopper View Post
stocks are part ownership in a company.
Sorry...there is no ownership...except for owning a piece of paper.

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Once you lose your money in a casino it's gone.
Once you lose your money in a bad stock purchase...it's gone.

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Stock prices fluctuate and usually always go back up and you always have part ownership in the company.
'Usually goes back up'--this is the gamble! And...you never have ownership!

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You need to do some research about investing instead of arguing from a position of ignorance. Read some of the previuos posts, they know the score too.
Don't be so arrogant since this is a very complex topic and cannot be simplified as you try to do...
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
Here's a simple reason.

The failure of AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and possible WaMu has absolutely nothing to do with the value of their stocks. It has to do with poor business practices by these companies. The devaluation of the stock value merely reflects the fact that as businesses they have failed due to gross mismanagement.

By way of analogy, a new Mercedes might be worth $40K but if you blow the engine in it might only be worth $5K. Would you eliminate auto sales because someone blew up the engine on the Mercedes?
I'll bet you $1000 cash that every one of those CEO's and board members associated with the companies you mention above were primarily focused on giving investors high stock prices and maximizing profits at the potential expense of the long term benefits.

This is a feeding frenzy where the CEO reaps millions in bonuses if the stock reaches a certain value! The management of the companies many times spend inordinate amounts of time doing nothing other than trying to keep shareholders happy!

Meanwhile common sense business practices are placed on hold while these companies grab for the gold...fully knowing the risks...but they do it because for the moment they are all winning. But since it's bad business models, when the slightest hiccup comes along, they come crashing down and we're so stupid that we bail them out.
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
This is 50% true.
Actually, it is 100% true. Granted, fewer than 10% of stock transactions take place in the form of initial public offerings (wherein the company itself is raising capital) and the other 90% are secondary transactions (wherein people are swapping pieces of paper that represent pieces of ownership in companies), but both are legitimate functions of a stock market.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
All day long I've been trying to come up with a single positive reason for the 100% out-of-control stock markets, and I can't think of a single thing.

Can you??

But I can think of lots of negative issues caused by the markets, including the $700 billion bailout, and the greed both from corporations and the PEOPLE that has gripped this nation for the past ten years.

I say it's time to eliminate the stock markets in favor of good old fashioned business practices...

What do you think??
That's like saying it's time to get rid of bicycles in favor of good old fashioned 2 wheeled pedaled transportation.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
Actually, it is 100% true. Granted, fewer than 10% of stock transactions take place in the form of initial public offerings (wherein the company itself is raising capital) and the other 90% are secondary transactions (wherein people are swapping pieces of paper that represent pieces of ownership in companies), but both are legitimate functions of a stock market.
What is it that you believe you own? Do you think you can walk into the lobby of a company with your stock certificate and ask to see the part that you own?

Yes both are legitimate functions...I was just saying there are many more functions of a stock market which is why I said 50%...
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusticus View Post
That's like saying it's time to get rid of bicycles in favor of good old fashioned 2 wheeled pedaled transportation.
I don't recall mentioning a replacement for the stock market--just eliminate it.

Like I said 'what is a positive reason to have the stock market'??
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
I'm still waiting for someone to provide a positive reason for the stock market??

It's just a casino as you say...
It gives businesses the money they need to expand their operations. Now this is very important if you are a small business and you can attract investment. If you can't understand this, then you are a lost cause
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2008, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fear-And-Loathing View Post
It gives businesses the money they need to expand their operations. Now this is very important if you are a small business and you can attract investment. If you can't understand this, then you are a lost cause
Always interesting to see the personal attacks...makes you feel superior or what??

Yes...some money can be raised via the stock market, but money can also be raised in many other ways...so the stock market IS NOT necessary for the reason you provided...

Still waiting for a single positive reason to have the stock market??
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
What is it that you believe you own? Do you think you can walk into the lobby of a company with your stock certificate and ask to see the part that you own?

Yes both are legitimate functions...I was just saying there are many more functions of a stock market which is why I said 50%...
Actually yes, you can walk right into any corporation and show them your stock certificates and they will show you what you own. All of the business financial records are there for your inspection. If, for example, your stock is worth 1/1,000,000th of the corporation then you can see exactly what you own.

And you can also attend the stockholders meeting where the elected members of the board are choosen by the stockholders and vote for or against individuals and proposals.

And, even though you maybe a minority stockholder, you can bring suit against the corporation if you believe the board is treating you unfairly. The courts are very sympathetic to minority owners which alledge unfair treatment by the corporation.

As a stockholder you have the right to nominate ANYONE for any elected position on the board and have equal resources to promote your candidate for that position PAID FOR BY THE CORPORATION.

A stockholder enjoys many rights related to their ownership in a corporation and the fact that most people don't exercise their rights doesn't mean they don't have them.
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Last edited by Shiva_TD; 09-22-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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