Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Current Events


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2004, 05:10 PM
livefree livefree is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 921
livefree is on a distinguished road
Credits: 22,432
Default Falluja a humanitarian crisis, aid workers say

As the US military continues its attack on the city of Falluja, the tip of the iceberg of the cost in human suffering is starting to come to light. This is not a video game, as many of the RWackos seem to feel. These are real people, families and children who are being blown up, shot, burned and killed every hour that this futile and pointless insanity continues. The US military has bombed one hospital, killing a number of doctors as well as patients, and they have taken over the only other hospital in the city and are reportedly preventing the staff from treating wounded civilians.

Falluja a humanitarian crisis, aid workers say
By Fadel al-Badrani

Source: Reuters
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAK053516.htm

FALLUJA, Iraq, Nov 10 (Reuters) - Fighting in Falluja has created a humanitarian disaster in which innocent people are dying because medical help cannot reach them, aid workers in Iraq said on Wednesday.

In one case, a pregnant woman and her child died in a refugee camp west of the city after the mother unexpectedly aborted and no doctors were on hand, Firdoos al-Ubadi, an official from the Iraqi Red Crescent Society, told Reuters.

In another case, a young boy died from a snake bite that would normally have been easily treatable, she said.

"From a humanitarian point of view it's a disaster, there's no other way to describe it. And if we don't do something about it soon, it's going to spread to other cities," she said.

About 10,000 U.S. soldiers and 2,000 Iraqi troops are fighting to wrest control of Falluja, 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad, back from insurgents.

At least 2,200 families have fled Falluja in recent days and are struggling to survive without enough water, food or medicine in nearby towns and villages, she said.

Some families have fled as far as Tikrit, about 150 km (95 miles) north of Falluja.

But the biggest concern is people in and around Falluja itself -- they can't be reached because U.S. and Iraqi forces have set up a wide cordon around the city to prevent anyone from entering and any insurgents from fleeing.

It is unclear how many civilians are left in Falluja, but the U.S. military estimates 150,000, or half the entire population, have fled the city since they began shaping up for an offensive in October.

The Muslim Clerics' Association estimates about 60,000 people are still there but it is unknown how they arrived at the figure and because of the chaos no official numbers are available.

Many of those who fled are with relatives and do not show up in refugee statistics.

NO SUPPLIES, NO HELP

Between a nightly curfew and the danger of venturing onto the streets, many are effectively trapped at home.

"We've asked for permission from the Americans to go into the city and help the people there but we haven't heard anything back from them," Ubadi said. "There's no medicine, no water, no electricity. They need our help."

The Red Crescent Society has teams of doctors and relief experts ready to go in to each of Falluja's districts with essential aid, but needs U.S. approval first.

The U.S. military was not immediately available to comment on the aid agency's request, but has said its first priority is to defeat the rebels holed up in Falluja.

An offensive was launched late on Monday and in furious street-to-street fighting since, U.S. forces have battled their way into the heart of Falluja's most rebellious district.

Commanders say they are doing everything they can to minimise civilian losses, but it is not always possible.

On Tuesday, a 9-year-old boy died after being hit in the stomach by shrapnel. His parents were unable to get him to hospital because of the fighting and so resorted to wrapping a sheet around him to stem the blood flow.

He died hours later of blood loss and was buried in the garden of the family home.

"We buried him in the garden because it was too dangerous to go out," said his father, teacher Mohammed Abboud. "We did not know how long the fighting would last."

The International Committee for the Red Cross says there are thousands of elderly and women and children who have had no food or water for days. At least 20,000 have gathered in the town of Saqlawiya, south of Falluja.

"The Red Cross is very worried. We urge all combatants to guarantee passage to those who need medical care, regardless of whether they are friends or enemies," spokesman Ahmad al-Raoui said. "They must be allowed to return home as soon as possible."

Aid workers say there are still hundreds of families left in the city, which has been pummelled by sustained aerial bombardment and artillery fire in recent days.

"We know of at least 157 families inside Falluja who need our help," said Ubadi.

For some it is already too late.

One mother and her three daughters had intended to flee but their home was hit by a bombardment earlier this week and all died, neighbours who escaped told aid workers.
--(Neo/con family values!)
__________________
"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. " --Noam Chomsky
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2004, 05:28 PM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 41
Posts: 18,562
usa us minnesota
raytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 116,006
Default Dude, that's war

Look, I oppose the war in Iraq, and get sick at the human and financial costs of this needless conflict.

But once you're in, you're in, and you have to play to win. That's why we had to take down al-Sadr. That's why we have to take out insurgent strongholds like Fallujah.

Are you telling me it's not a humanitarian disaster to give the insurgents a safe haven from which to plan bombing attacks and continue to destablize the country?

People die in war, including civilians. The question is, are you doing everything you can to minimize civilian deaths and property damage? Airstrikes aside, I think the answer is clearly yes as far as U.S. soldiers are concerned.

My gripe is the actual fact of the war compounded by the incompetent way we went about conducting it. Criticize that, not the lamentable but necessary reality of combat.
__________________
Man up.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2004, 05:40 PM
JP5's Avatar
JP5 JP5 is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 23,295
us texas
JP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 153,676
Default Anti-war; no matter what

Isn't it wierd really......that Livefree doesn't even seem to notice the humanitarian crisis taking place in the rest of the world? Like the Sudan? Like the Ivory Coast? Like northern Uganda?

Perhaps it's because there's no way for her to condemn the U.S. over it? But then, maybe not.........I'll bet she could find a way to blame all that suffering on the United States as well. I get the impression that LiveFree is one of those who believes that "the U.S. is (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they do, and (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they don't." I would hate to think what her position would have been pre WWII.
__________________
"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama said mockingly of the New York senator. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2004, 05:55 PM
Shiloh's Avatar
Shiloh Shiloh is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 74
Shiloh is on a distinguished road
Credits: 680
Default Bornfree, livefree

Quote:
Originally Posted by livefree";p=&quot View Post
FALLUJA, Iraq, Nov 10 (Reuters) - Fighting in Falluja has created a humanitarian disaster in which innocent people are dying because medical help cannot reach them, aid workers in Iraq said on Wednesday.
Iraqis were asked to leave more than a week ago. It's sort of like fleeing a hurricane. You stay and you accept the danger, knowing emergency help for you will not be there. And during and after the storm's passing you're under curfew without power and with the few resources you collected before the chaos. The nature is not pretty, but it is..."For some it is already too late."

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Isn't it wierd really......that Livefree doesn't even seem to notice the humanitarian crisis taking place in the rest of the world? Like the Sudan? Like the Ivory Coast? Like northern Uganda?
Livefree is not the only person not talking about those places.

P. S.: There's an irony in that name, livefree, when the discussion is about Iraq.
__________________
I've Got To Break Free!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2004, 07:56 AM
nawbut nawbut is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlantic
Posts: 4,208
nawbut will become famous soon enough
Credits: 21,237
Default 'play to win'

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Look, I oppose the war in Iraq, and get sick at the human and financial costs of this needless conflict.

But once you're in, you're in, and you have to play to win. That's why we had to take down al-Sadr. That's why we have to take out insurgent strongholds like Fallujah.

Are you telling me it's not a humanitarian disaster to give the insurgents a safe haven from which to plan bombing attacks and continue to destablize the country?

People die in war, including civilians. The question is, are you doing everything you can to minimize civilian deaths and property damage? Airstrikes aside, I think the answer is clearly yes as far as U.S. soldiers are concerned.

My gripe is the actual fact of the war compounded by the incompetent way we went about conducting it. Criticize that, not the lamentable but necessary reality of combat.
It depends, very much, on how you define a 'win'. The creation of circumstances which are likely to generate more support for the insurgents, and swell their ranks for future attacks; this is not what, in the longer term, I would class as a 'win'. Fallujah can and will be taken, in the short term, but at a cost (I suspect) of a more comprehensive, long term 'win' - wining the people of Fallujah/Iraq, hearts and minds.

Occupying forces may batter nations into submission for brief periods, but its never a war they can 'win'. Not unless they are prepared to stay for decades before negotiating a retreat.

Or, simply dump, and leave a puppet dictator behind who will do their bidding for them. It may be found that this latter option may be preferred in this instance.
__________________
"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened."
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2004, 09:13 AM
livefree livefree is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 921
livefree is on a distinguished road
Credits: 22,432
Default trying to change the subject again, jps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Isn't it wierd really......that Livefree doesn't even seem to notice the humanitarian crisis taking place in the rest of the world? Like the Sudan? Like the Ivory Coast? Like northern Uganda?
Perhaps it's because there's no way for her to condemn the U.S. over it? But then, maybe not.........I'll bet she could find a way to blame all that suffering on the United States as well. I get the impression that LiveFree is one of those who believes that "the U.S. is (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they do, and (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they don't." I would hate to think what her position would have been pre WWII.
It is really amusing to watch your style of debate, JPy. So often it seems to consist of trying to change the subject. Threads do have a topic, you know (or maybe you don't), and the topic of this one is not Sudan or wherever, it is the current (like right now) humanitarian crisis in Falluja. If Sudan, the Ivory Coast and Uganda are so important to you, why aren't you starting some threads about them rather than imagining that you 'know' what I "notice".
Your other main style of debate is to make puny ad hominem attacks on someone with stuff you just make up out of your own head: "I'll bet...", "I get the impression...", "I...think...".
I'm perfectly capable of stating my own positions on issues so I really don't need your lame fantasies about my positions. Try debating my actual points and not your own head-trips. Or is that too hard for you?
__________________
"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. " --Noam Chomsky
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2004, 09:25 AM
raven724 raven724 is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 437
raven724 is on a distinguished road
Credits: 3,830
Default .

The nature of war is ugly. Its dirty. It's bloody. And people die...both guilty and innocent. That is what war is and it has been that was since the beginning of time. This is a very simple fact to realize.

The innocent people of Fallujia had enough warning to leave. Those who stayed did so at their own peril knowing full well what was going to happen..

Do I care if there is a "humanitarian crisis" is Fallujia? Absolutely not. We went in there to free it from the grip of terrorists. That is what we are doing and it is a good thing.

All I know is that once this is over the terrorist hold on Fallujia will be over and that is enough for me to believe that we are doing good there despite any negative press the battle might be getting.
__________________
Be Alert: The world needs more Lerts
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2004, 09:28 AM
JP5's Avatar
JP5 JP5 is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 23,295
us texas
JP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 153,676
Default On being naive

Quote:
Originally Posted by livefree";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Isn't it wierd really......that Livefree doesn't even seem to notice the humanitarian crisis taking place in the rest of the world? Like the Sudan? Like the Ivory Coast? Like northern Uganda?
Perhaps it's because there's no way for her to condemn the U.S. over it? But then, maybe not.........I'll bet she could find a way to blame all that suffering on the United States as well. I get the impression that LiveFree is one of those who believes that "the U.S. is (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they do, and (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they don't." I would hate to think what her position would have been pre WWII.
It is really amusing to watch your style of debate, JPy. So often it seems to consist of trying to change the subject. Threads do have a topic, you know (or maybe you don't), and the topic of this one is not Sudan or wherever, it is the current (like right now) humanitarian crisis in Falluja. If Sudan, the Ivory Coast and Uganda are so important to you, why aren't you starting some threads about them rather than imagining that you 'know' what I "notice".
Your other main style of debate is to make puny ad hominem attacks on someone with stuff you just make up out of your own head: "I'll bet...", "I get the impression...", "I...think...".
I'm perfectly capable of stating my own positions on issues so I really don't need your lame fantasies about my positions. Try debating my actual points and not your own head-trips. Or is that too hard for you?
Perhaps you need to study some about debating. Debating is where you try and make YOUR points....and I make My points. YOUR subject was humanitarian crisis....and my response had to do with humanitarian crisis and how you're only interested in those where you can try and smear our president. Typical stuff from you.

Perhaps you were under the impression that a military could go into a city the size of Fallujah without ANY humanitarian problems. Most of us are NOT that naive.
__________________
"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama said mockingly of the New York senator. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2004, 09:33 AM
MRMAGQQ MRMAGQQ is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA (Full-time RVer)
Posts: 561
MRMAGQQ is on a distinguished road
Credits: 3,213
Default A nice boo-hoo bleedin' heart topic.

In my opinion, some of the anti-Bush people are hypocrites in that they bring out articles like this, not so much out of humanitarian concern, but to use them as talking points against an administration they don't like.

For once, I completely agree with raytri, except for the parts about,"...needless war.", "...incompetence...", etc.
__________________
http://www.freedomswatch.org/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx

When religion ruled the world...wasn't that the Dark Ages?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2004, 09:45 AM
JP5's Avatar
JP5 JP5 is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 23,295
us texas
JP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 153,676
Default The REST of the story......

This follow-up to Livefree's "humanitarian crisis" will probably NOT be posted by her. So....I'll provide it. Humanitarian and ambulance service is being provided as soon as possible. AND Iraqi pow's have been treated in the same hospitals....right alongside injured American soldiers. Also....even though they had weeks to do it but chose not to....women and children and the elderly are being allowed to leave.

"A four-vehicle convoy of the Iraqi Red Crescent carrying humanitarian assistance arrived in Fallujah after the Iraqi and American troops allowed them to pass."

"An Iraqi Red Crescent relief convoy brought humanitarian aid to the city Saturday morning. The city is largely deserted, Dawood said, adding that up to 90 percent of the residents have left.

Red Crescent spokeswoman Ferdoos al-Ubadi said the convoy consisted of four trucks, three ambulances, a minibus carrying employees, medical aid, food, water and blankets.

The supplies are enough for the 200 families still in Falluja, according to Red Crescent estimates. Officials don't know precisely how many civilians remain.

Before fighting first erupted in Falluja months ago, the city was populated by 250,000 to 300,000 people. (Falluja map)

Eight humanitarian groups in Iraq, including the Japan International Volunteer Center and the Mennonite Central Committee, have issued a signed letter expressing alarm for the safety of civilians in Falluja and other areas of the Sunni-dominated Al Anbar province.

The groups urge the "international community" to develop conditions making it possible to deliver humanitarian aid and that a "humanitarian corridor should be created immediately to serve as an exit route for civilians trapped in the conflict zone."

"Aid workers on the ground estimate that more then 200,000 people have fled Falluja, seeking shelter and protection in neighboring areas.

"Those displaced communities lack drinkable water and food; the available shelters (private or public buildings) are overcrowded.

"Health facilities are facing difficulties for lack of personnel and shortage of drugs," the letter said.

Ala'adin Alwan, Iraq's health minister, said Falluja General Hospital, seized by Iraqi commandos earlier in the week, is up and running.

Also, a convoy of 20 ambulances is positioned on edge of the city to help ferry out civilian casualties, Alwan said.

Even as the calls for humanitarian aid went out, U.S. forces continued to battle remaining insurgents."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
__________________
"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama said mockingly of the New York senator. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden