...there were about 1,400 accidental deaths (and several times that many injuries) compared to 108,000 defensive uses (assuming you believe that number and not the number dismissed by the report -- I have no reason to doubt the 108,000 number).

It's worth noting that this study is ten years old. Further, it seems to deal more with ownership than accidental injury/death.

Regardless, the need for having a gun in the home for defensive purposes seems rather minor; I personally would never take the chance.

Thanks for the cite.

http://However, I personally would d...;t keep a gun.

This is a common misperception.

Yes. In a home with a gun, children are slightly more likely to injure themselves with a gun. But, child firearm injury rates are low, whereas self-protective uses are high and often unreported.

I'd recommend reading Gary Kleck, ph.D.'s analysis of this...

Here is a well-done article that explores this common myth:


http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html

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Yeah, I didn't quote any of the estimates in the millions...I know many people won't buy them.

True. I think the DoJ is about due to sponsor another one, but I don't see the ratio changing terribly much.

I rather thought that was the point of HP's comment, which brought us to this point. Having a gun, accidents vs. defense, etc.

As is your right. I have a couple of neighbors who feel the same way, but they're glad I don't.

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This may be where the 22% came from in the Brady report:

FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

- Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu. Rev. Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40

Here's the link I got it from:

http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm#generalstats

...which also cites to Kellerman from the NE Journal of Medicine.

http://rileychildrenshospital.com/do...jsp?locid=1700

Relevant excerpt:

The Risk of Guns in the Home
Over 35% of American households contain at least one firearm. Police Foundation, 1996
One out of three handguns is kept loaded and unlocked in the home. Police Foundation, 1996
Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill someone you know than they are to kill in self-defense. Kellermann, New England Journal of Medicine, 1997
The risk of homicide in the home is three times greater in households with guns. Kellermann, New England Journal of Medicine, 1993
The risk of suicide is five times greater in households with guns. Kellermann, New England Journal of Medicine, 1992
More than 1.2 million elementary-aged, latch-key children have access to guns in their homes. Lee, Journal of the American Medical Association, 1990
In 60% of fatal accidents involving a firearm, the weapon was located in or near the home. National Association of Children's Hospitals and Related institutions, 1993
Currently, an estimated 39% of households have a firearm, while 24% have a handgun. University of Chicago, 1998
Firearm assaults on family members and other intimate acquaintances are 12 times more likely to result in death than are assaults using other weapons. Saltzman LE et al., Weapon Involvement and Injury Outcomes in Family and Intimate Assaults, 1997

No matter how you slice it, two things seem clear:

1. There are just too many guns on the streets.
2. Owning a gun for defense is not worth the increased risk. The chances of ever needing it are low, and the chances of hitting an unintentional target, regardless of whose numbers you believe, are too high to justify it.

And your number of injuries annually is high.

The number of accidental gun injuries in the U.S. per year is actually closer to 1,000 (out of a population of 300 million people).

And the number of defensive gun uses, per year, is closer to 2 million. YOu've actually cherry picked, from the data, the survey with the lowest number of gun defenses, and from the most unreliable source. Without a doubt, the most reliable source on the subject, at this point in time, is Gary Kleck, Ph.D.'s research, which puts the number at close to 2 million defensive uses.

Where you got your numbers:

[b]There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually. [/b]

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually.

The figure you've quoted is actually the DISCREPANCY to the majority of studies, and not the solidly in the middle of most of the surveys, which have placed defensive gun uses at between 800,000 and 2 million per year. Further, there are serious methodological flaws in the use of NCVS data for estimating the use of defensive firearm usage.

More on this subject:

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

I should note that Kleck et. al. won the national award for contributions to the field of criminology in 1994, for Kleck's 1991 book on the subject, from the U.S.'s most prestigious organization of researchers dedicated to the study and research of criminality, the ASC (American Society of Criminologists). This is far from some sort of conservative rubber stamp group, in fact, ASC is an inordinantly liberal group, as a whole.

Yet again, you've fallen prey to using leftist sources (brady campaign) to make your case. Haven't you realized by now that these folks have a vested interest not in provided objective information, but in providing only that data which supports their cause? They are interested in spinning the public discussion only to benefit their personal stance.

I used to be a strong proponent of gun control...until I read the research and saw the literal drop in crime that occurred in my own state with the passage of loosened requirements on concealed carry permits.

To reduce gun crimes, I would suggest that the most effective method is enhanced penalties for the criminal use of a firearm, as Florida has passed, not sanctions on law-abiding gun owners.

Catz

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you think theres mpore chance of accidental death with gun in house rather than intruder...lets say thats correct. death buy guns in house would still be lower than accidental death with knives, stove, tools, chemicals.....yet we all keep thosein our hose..and numders wise guns a much lower in the list. mayb because guns look scaryer than bleach we fear them more...disproportinate to the ACTUAL numbers.

That page also claims "802...unintentional shootings" in 2001. That's not a lot.

How do 802 accidents morph into "A gun kept in the home is...more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting (4 times)...than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.?"

I don't really see 802 being four times 108,000...

Edit: I think the Brady people are full of it. That's a pretty blatant lie that they just expect people to swallow.

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This is personal belief territory. I always had access to firearms as a child, and I've never shot anyone save in legitimate circumstances. In contrast, I've needed a gun many a time. That's the thing of it: it's better to have it when you need it than need it and not have it. But again, that's personal belief.

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That's 35 million homes.

That's 10 million guns...and yet, only 1,000 accidental firearms injuries per year.

That means that only .001% of guns are use in an accidental firearm injury.

I'd say that bikes and soccer balls are more dangerous, based on those statistics.

Kellerman used the NCVS data as his baseline, data that has already been shown to be flawed.

There are 2 million defensive uses of guns per year and 1,000 accidental deaths.

That means that a gun for self protection is 2,000 times more likely to be used for self defense than to be used to accidentally kill someone.

Hm.

Catz

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