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Old 02-08-2009, 10:09 AM
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The government loves to follow whatever Keynes says, including the memorable (and (*)(*)(*)(*)ing): "in the long run, we're all dead."

I'm sure they just whisper borrow and spend, borrow and spend, borrow and spend......... to themselves constantly.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
Here, I'll help ya out Sly.

http://www.cbo.gov/aboutcbo/econadvisers.shtml

Oh, by the way, the righties and the lefties are clueless.
well put!!!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post

Of interest to some, the US currently spends enough on interest payments on the national debt to actually fund the entire enumerated responsibilities of the US government under the Constitution.
Something tells me that this is likely an overstatement.

The enumerated responsibilities are tiny. Common defense, treaties, it's very limited, and for the first 4 score years it was almost negligable. My sense of it is that debt service is at least double the enumerated responsibilities.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JP5 View Post
"CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing."
That's a lie. The CBO said no such thing. I know, because I actually read the report.
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:34 PM
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Why won't the plan work?
Trickle down economics. Instead of letting companies keep more of their money and hope it trickles down, you handing them money and hoping it trickles down. Not much difference really.
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
As long as it's only the handful of Republicans that vote for it. This Stimulus Bill is political suicide for the Democrats up for reelection in 2010. Democrats had better hope for 4th of July Spectacular results from their stimulus plan (not going to happen), because if they don't get it, they're going to get clobbered in the midterm! Perfect "we didn't vote for it" platform for a landslide in the Congress, then simply cut the appropriations and let their pork melt into a stinky puddle.
Read the article, Prof. No suicide in 2010.

Quote:
CBO said there is no crowding out in the short term, so the plan would succeed in boosting growth in 2009 and 2010.

The agency projected the Senate bill would produce between 1.4 percent and 4.1 percent higher growth in 2009 than if there was no action. For 2010, the plan would boost growth by 1.2 percent to 3.6 percent.
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JP5 View Post
Better to do nothing, says non-partisan CBO. I couldn't agree more.
Hey, JP, remember what the CBO said in 2005 about the Bush tax cuts for the rich? Funny, I'll bet you weren't touting the "nonpartisan CBO" back then, were you? Just a little hypocrisy going on here.

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The new Congressional Budget Office budget projections released today show that the nation faces a fourth consecutive year of substantial budget deficits. Some seek to portray “runaway domestic spending” or growth in the costs of entitlement programs as the primary cause of the shift in recent years from sizeable surpluses to large deficits. Such a characterization is incorrect. In 2005, the cost of tax cuts enacted over the past four years will be over three times the cost of all domestic program increases enacted over this period.

The new CBO data show that changes in law enacted since January 2001 increased the deficit by $539 billion in 2005. In the absence of such legislation, the nation would have a surplus this year. Tax cuts account for nearly half — 48 percent — of this $539 billion in increased costs.[1] Increases in program spending make up the other 52 percent and have been primarily concentrated in defense, homeland security, and international
http://www.cbpp.org/1-25-05bud.htm
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Hey, JP, remember what the CBO said in 2005 about the Bush tax cuts for the rich? Funny, I'll bet you weren't touting the "nonpartisan CBO" back then, were you? Just a little hypocrisy going on here.



http://www.cbpp.org/1-25-05bud.htm
JP5 isn't quoting the CBO study. She's quoting the Washington Times spin. The study reads quite differently.

CBO: Obama Stimulus Harmful Over Long Haul

I believe JP5 was dissing the CBO when I quoted a similar CBO study awhile back. Out of curiosity, I searched for a post to confirm this but ran across another interesting one instead...

Quote:
You're right about one thing: Bush has done a great job of bringing us out of the recession and failing economy that Clinton handed him. And ALL after the worst terrorist attack ever on our home soil and AFTER the worst natural disaster EVER in our country. Low Unemployment----very low inflation rates----very low interest rates---strong housing market---and fully recovered stock market! The tax cuts worked to stimulate the economy, create jobs, keep inflation down, and to make the economy strong again. Not a fake bubble economy; a real and strong economy. Thank you President George W. Bush!!!!
Thank you, Bush? This almost reads like a parody, given the current situation, especially the part about the Bush economy not being a bubble. Such posts are plentiful in the archives. If I had a dollar for every time a Republican touted the "strong" economy a few years ago (never particularly strong even at its best), lower unemployment (never that low), and a growing housing bubble and attributing it to Bush policies, I'd be able to pay off a significant chunk of the debt Bush ran up.
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Budget surplus inherited by Bush: $236 billion (CBO, 2000)

Budget deficit inherited by Obama: $1,667 billion (CBO projection, 3/2009)
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Hey, JP, remember what the CBO said in 2005 about the Bush tax cuts for the rich? Funny, I'll bet you weren't touting the "nonpartisan CBO" back then, were you? Just a little hypocrisy going on here.
AND I'll bet YOU were!!!!

Regardless of what they "touted" back then, they've been proven wrong.

116 million taxpayers benefited from Pres. Bush's tax relief. The across-the-board tax cuts provided tax relief to every American who pays income taxes, created a new bottom 10 percent bracket rate, doubled the child tax credit to $1,000, and actually increased the share of the Federal income tax burden paid by the top 10 percent of individual earners from 67 percent in 2000 to 70 percent in 2005. In addition, the Bush Administration removed 13 million low-income earners from the income tax rolls completely. There was 52 straight months of unprecedented growth under Bush.

Tax relief under Bush spurred growth in Federal tax receipts. In fact, the Federal Treasury realized the largest three-year increase of revenue in 26 years, and tax receipts grew more than $542 billion between 2000 and 2007.

We'll have to wait to see if the CBO will be proven wrong in their assessment about Obama's spending plan or not. But so far, it's not looking good.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Hey, JP, remember what the CBO said in 2005 about the Bush tax cuts for the rich? Funny, I'll bet you weren't touting the "nonpartisan CBO" back then, were you? Just a little hypocrisy going on here.
Thanks Swede, I knew someone would prove me right.

The CBO is now beloved when it was once hated by conservatives.

Hypocrisy.
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