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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009, 05:45 AM
OKgrannie OKgrannie is offline
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Originally Posted by Lizard People View Post
Here's what bugs me about the Democrat hypocrisy.

A woman has the right to choose whether to abort or not, but she doesn't have the right to put their kid in a safe school where they can get a good education and won't be assaulted with weapons. She gets to choose the baby's life up until it is actually born, then the government steps in and takes over.
Parents have a right put their kids in any school they choose or to homeschool them, but they have an obligation to pay for any choice they make. If parents don't like the government provided schools, they should pay for their choice themselves.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jellah View Post
There is no element of "cartoon plot" in business executives doing all they can to increase their own profits while reducing their risks to lose money. Its also well documented that profitable business interests lobby the govt to change regulations and even get rid of some so that they can achieve their goals of profit easier.

Its funny you try to characterize businessmen going for profit as some cartoonish plot...its such a basic premise and I doubt there is ANY halfway successful business person out there that would tell you they DONT seek to increase their profits while reducing risks of loss.

There is nothing dumb nor particularly complicated about making the public purse provide your safety net....and we are arent we? Isnt the fact of the matter that we ARE providing them that safety net?
And there is a difference between going after profit and pursuing an avenue that you think or know will result in failure and the tax payers having to foot the bill. We are providing a safety net in this situation, they are not the only ones getting a safety net. A lot of borrowers are getting it as well. Generally I'm against safety nets.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jellah View Post
LOL you think you can claim it and it will make it true? Thats funny.
As funny as you thinking you can deny it and make that fact untrue.

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yea they hid toxic assets to make it more "truthful". You are like some bad comedy routine!
The comedy is in the "logic" on display in this post. You have failed, in epic fashion, to prove their intent was to hide toxic assets. You can't prove it because that would be a lie. Computer leases are also off balance sheet and guess what? Those aren't toxic assets generally speaking either. For those of us educated in business, it is common knowledge that there are several reasons for off balance sheet transactions. Trying to hide bad assets isn't one of them.

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No they didnt use any particular criteria which is exactly why they were toxic...they werent REALLY what they claimed on paper. The market wouldnt pay what they claimed. They were allowed to value them as they wanted to.
Yes they did, market value. At the time those vehicles were created it was based upon market value and they were getting it. Now those values have decreased because they can't get the value. In instances where they were backed by other assets (guarantees, derivatives, letters of credit, etc) they were booked at the actual book value.

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The reason the market is like it is right now is because of all these hide and seek games...the lying games. The keeping assets off books so they could lend more than they should in an effort to gain more profits. They all overextended and got greedy.....but lets just blame the people in the ghettos for all this heh?
No it isn't. Blaming all the people in the ghettos for it is your invention. Just like off balance sheet transactions is an invention for the cause. Greed was involved as were many factors. Off balance sheet transactions, yeah that was the cause of the collapse
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
Parents have a right put their kids in any school they choose or to homeschool them, but they have an obligation to pay for any choice they make. If parents don't like the government provided schools, they should pay for their choice themselves.
Then at the very least the parents should be reimbursed the money they paid into the public education system. It would make no difference to me if they received all of the money that would've been spent on their child to go towards the school of their choice. As long as the child is being educated I don't see what the uproar is about.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009, 12:24 PM
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Then at the very least the parents should be reimbursed the money they paid into the public education system. It would make no difference to me if they received all of the money that would've been spent on their child to go towards the school of their choice. As long as the child is being educated I don't see what the uproar is about.
All taxpayers pay to educate all children. All taxpayers pay to build roads, so do taxpayers who chose not to drive on those roads get money back? All taxpayers pay to build and maintain state and city parks, do taxpayers who chose to spend their time in their own backyards get money back? The uproar is about parents who want taxpayers to pay for an "upgrade" for their children's education. And most of the time it is parents wanting taxpayers to pay for a sectarian education for their children (95% of all private schools are sectarian).
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2009, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
The uproar is about parents who want taxpayers to pay for an "upgrade" for their children's education. And most of the time it is parents wanting taxpayers to pay for a sectarian education for their children (95% of all private schools are sectarian).
Vouchers and education credits do not raise your taxes. They simply redirect some of the money already allocated for failing schools to good schools.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:17 PM
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Jellah Jellah is offline
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Vouchers and education credits do not raise your taxes. They simply redirect some of the money already allocated for failing schools to good schools.
Actually they increase failure in public schools by defunding them and redirect the money into private pockets.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
As funny as you thinking you can deny it and make that fact untrue.
You can hang onto that all you like.


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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
The comedy is in the "logic" on display in this post. You have failed, in epic fashion, to prove their intent was to hide toxic assets. You can't prove it because that would be a lie. Computer leases are also off balance sheet and guess what? Those aren't toxic assets generally speaking either. For those of us educated in business, it is common knowledge that there are several reasons for off balance sheet transactions. Trying to hide bad assets isn't one of them.
Not at all, you just have epically failed to deal with facts placed directly in front of you. See...I can use "epic fail" too.

They are toxic assets.


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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
Yes they did, market value. At the time those vehicles were created it was based upon market value and they were getting it. Now those values have decreased because they can't get the value. In instances where they were backed by other assets (guarantees, derivatives, letters of credit, etc) they were booked at the actual book value.
It was the banks themselves that determined the amount they were worth, there was no set criteria for arriving at that value nor any outside source who had to concur with the "value" placed on the asset by the bank.

The value was 100% created by the bank, not the market.

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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
No it isn't. Blaming all the people in the ghettos for it is your invention. Just like off balance sheet transactions is an invention for the cause. Greed was involved as were many factors. Off balance sheet transactions, yeah that was the cause of the collapse
It was definitely you who think this crisis was created by home loans in ghetto areas.

Banks overextended due to greed, they hid the problem and it grew into the crisis we have now. They never were concerned because they always knew that they had the kind of safety net no citizen would ever be able to count on AND they could even blame them for it all and get people like you to cheerlead the cause.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jellah View Post
Actually they increase failure in public schools by defunding them and redirect the money into private pockets.
When a school district spends over $26,000 per child and remains one of the worst in the country (DC) increasing failure becomes an inevitability.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:12 PM
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When a school district spends over $26,000 per child and remains one of the worst in the country (DC) increasing failure becomes an inevitability.

Then look to find out where the failures are and they "why" and fix that....its not a good idea to simply turn the money over to private interests. Thats not a "fix" either. That simply defunds the public education system and turns public money over to private interests that are sopposed to support themselves via private money.

Also exactly how many public schools are "failures"? What is this criteira for failure and what percentage of public schools are failures overall?

Why not expand or adopt the models of the successful public schools instead of turning tax payer funds to private interests?
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