Raytri, Kaladrew & Glowdog,

Do any of you have children?

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"It aint over, till it's over"

From what I can see, your tax dollars *aren't* funding it. It's an independent movie made by an independent filmmaker.

The only way I see it being "funded" by tax dollars is if a teacher or school buys the film for use in the classroom. And it still won't be used with children; it comes in three versions: institutional, college and high school.

So is your objection to:

1. It contains scenes shot in elementary school classrooms, of teachers discussing the topic of gay celebrities with their students;

2. High schools might buy the film to show to their students.

And if so, what is your specific complaint? Isn't talking about how society treats gay people a part of a discussion of differences, just like discussing people of different races, genders or religion?

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Man up.

Two young daughters. Your point?

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Man up.

Groups such as NAMBLA and the Rene Guyon Society have been trying for years to reduce the age of consent to 4. Not a typo. I said 4. Obviously, y'all agree that we should protect our children. Can't we leave sex out of elementary schools? Most of you would probably not want your child to watch Will & Grace along with many other sit-coms because of the sexual content. Our kids are subject to enough crap as it is.

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Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.

All depends what you mean by "sex." My oldest was asking where babies come from by the time she was 2 and change. They know about "mommies" and "daddies." They know that animals have babies. They know that moms have breasts.

Is that talking about sex? Not directly, no.

Now let's expand that to discussing homosexuals.

My kids know about gay people because one of my wife's cousins is gay. Do we describe it in sexual terms? Of course not. We simply point out that while usually boys like girls and vice versa, sometimes boys like boys and girls like girls.

Do I think kids need to be "protected" from that? Not at all. Kids aren't dumb; they see differences, and wonder about them. We can either talk about them or try to avoid the topic. Kids will see that, too, and suddenly its something that's dirty and shameful and hidden.

Would I want my kids watching "Will & Grace"? No, but it has nothing to do with the characters being gay. It has to do with the adult themes and language. I don't let them watch "Sex and the City" either.

As long as the discussion is age-appropriate, I see no problem with acknowledging the realities of human existence.

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Man up.

Precisely. I don’t want one cent of public money being used to purchase these types of materials. Unless, perhaps, Liberals allow religious studies to be presented alongside hedonistic curricula. It’ll never happen - right? So let’s drop both from the table.


Once again, a quote from the producers of the film:

Since its release, the producers have run a remarkably successful grassroots distribution campaign, intended to make It's Elementary accessible to every conceivable type of institution working with children today.


Yes, I find that particularly objectionable.

I think it goes without saying that if I don’t believe a public school is the appropriate forum to discuss this matter, then likewise I don’t believe talking about the sexual desires of celebrities is proper for classroom discussions.

You will never have a discussion in a contemporary public school about how society treats people of different religions, unless of course they happen to be Muslim.

Did you tell her the "whole" truth? YOU decided what she was prepared to understand.What you tell your children is entirely your business.
Yes, but there are some people who advocate, "sex before 8, or it's too late."
I noted the sexual content of the show, not the gay aspect.But, who decides what is age-appropriate? Do you want ANYONE else to decide what is age-appropriate for your child?

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Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.

I'm sure there are teaching aids I'm not too thrilled about being used in public schools, too. But I recognize that public schools have to serve the whole community, not just me.

Acknowledging the existence of gay people is "hedonistic"?

As for religious studies -- religions are a valid subject for study in public schools, in the context of a comparitive religion class, for example. I also remember cultural links -- in high school when we studied China, we learned a bit about Buddhism, for example.

And yet the versions available for sale don't go below high school.

I couldn't judge its suitability for younger ages without viewing it. You can't, either.

Yes, I find that particularly objectionable.[/quote]

Read my response to 12th Man. Should teachers ignore the subject? Pretend gay people don't exist? Reprimand children for asking about it?

I think discussing differences among the people that make up our diverse society is a very appropriate thing for schools to engage in. And as I said in my response to 12th Man, you can talk about such differences without having to talk about sex or sexual desire.

After all, would *you* bring up sex when your kid asks why their classmate has two moms?

Quite a broad sweeping statement. I'd be interested how you source such a claim.

Here's a link that backs up my contention that you are mistaken: http://www.studyreligion.org/where/teaching.html

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Man up.

Well, duh. So do schools. Public schools are all about age-appropriate discussions of the material at hand. That's why you don't teach first-graders calculus.

True. I was merely responding to your question, which seemed to imply that people with kids must all think alike on this topic.

Ah, the "this will lead to bestiality and orgies" argument. It didn't happen when Copernicus proved the earth revolves around the sun, and it won't happen here. It's a particularly hysterical argument to make.

Sex with minors is against the law, and I think you'll find public schools take protecting their kids from sexual predators very seriously. But wait, that seems to contradict the "public schools are liberal, and liberal means anything goes" argument. Hmmm.

I trust professional educators to make that decision, as they've been doing for decades. It's what they do; it's what *every* institution of learning does, everywhere, all the time. If you don't trust schools to do that, then you don't trust schools, period. Which means you should home school your kids.

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Man up.

You'll continue to trust professional educators until you have a reason not to. It depends on your child's school and how closely you monitor your child's activities. Schools are infamous for doing incredibly inane but well-meaning things. Would you approve of a 7th grade English class being shown a film of a live birth (in all it's glory)? This is what happened in my daughter's co-ed class. My daughter told me that the mother screamed loudly throughout the film. She said there was no classroom discussion. The teacher said she had to show it. The only purpose we could think of was to scare the kids out of having sex. Does this make sense to you? I don't want my daughters to be afraid to have babies. I want a few grandkids someday.

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Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.