Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Current Events


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 11:27 AM
kaladrew's Avatar
kaladrew kaladrew is offline
Banned
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,554
kaladrew is on a distinguished road
Default "Political correctness gone awry"

ummmm, Michael Powel - the leader of the far right "PC" police
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 11:34 AM
catzmeow's Avatar
catzmeow catzmeow is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 15,275
usa us florida
catzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 76,556
Send a message via Yahoo to catzmeow
Default I never experienced that....

Quote:
Please understand, when she was a senior in high school her *guidance counselor* discouraged her from taking science and math classes (despite excellent grades) and tried to steer her toward Home Ec. She feels she has experienced much of the "girls aren't as smart" or "girls don't need science and math" discrimination.
I never experienced that...at my school, I was encouraged to take classes in science and math, though I never liked math.

And while my mom communicate alot of gender paradigms to me, my dad always told me that I should work, and that I could be whatever I wanted to be...

Guess who I believed?

Catz
__________________
I'll get nicer when you get smarter.


Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 11:38 AM
Liberty's Avatar
Liberty Liberty is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,594
usa us georgia
Liberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud of
Credits: 23,208
Default .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion";p=&quot View Post
Raytri, one difference is that some studies are done on the brain and various brain matter that are not impacted by societal traits such as those your wife suggested.
Brain studies sound very scientific and rigorous, but basically boil down to correlation between some biological variable and behavior -- and thus do little to address the nature/nurture issue. Did the brain difference cause the behavior, or the behavior cause the brain difference?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 11:42 AM
Rebellion's Avatar
Rebellion Rebellion is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 13,995
usa
Rebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 124,425
Default ...

Quote:
Agreed; my main point when talking with her is that we had to look at the studies. Brain studies aren't the be-all, end-all, though, either; a child's brain is very plastic, and the way connections are built probably have a lot to do with nurture.
They aren't, but they are also a good indication. And the evidence doesn't suggest that brain connections are affected by nurture. In any event, at the very least there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Sommers was partially correct. To call for his job speaks to those who believe in free speech as long as it's free speech they agree with.

Quote:
I agree, and so does my wife. She had two main concerns: that we aren't doing enough to overcome that, and by saying "it's nature", we provide an excuse to accept the situation as it is, even if "nature" only accounts for a small portion of the observed gap.
IF it is small, that doesn't change the point that Sommers did not lie. Yet he is being treated as if he did and is deserving of firing. I find that hypocritical at the least.
__________________
All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:01 PM
Liberty's Avatar
Liberty Liberty is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,594
usa us georgia
Liberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud ofLiberty has much to be proud of
Credits: 23,208
Default .

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
My wife is up in arms over this one, and she has an interesting perspective. She says there obviously are differences between men and women, but is it a difference in natural ability or a difference in learning styles? If classes cater to male learning styles, women will of course perform more poorly.
Actually, on the whole, women do better than men in classes. They have higher GPAs, graduate at a higher rate, take more AP classes, and are more likely to go to college. Despite all of this, men tend to perform better than women in AP classes and on the SAT (overall).
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:03 PM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 41
Posts: 17,633
usa us minnesota
raytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 110,854
Default Okay then

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion";p=&quot View Post
correct. To call for his job speaks to those who believe in free speech as long as it's free speech they agree with.
If your main point is that calling for Sommer's job is an extreme reaction to what he said, I agree. Absent that extreme, I think he's fair game for at least some criticism given his position.

And lets also note that at least some of the people calling for his head have other axes to grind with him; this is just a convenient leverage point. That's politics. Doesn't make it right or even particularly attractive; but it makes it more understandable.
__________________
Man up.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:36 PM
JP5's Avatar
JP5 JP5 is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,690
us texas
JP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond reputeJP5 has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 149,384
Default Gender Tendancies

I don't think it all fits in neat little compartments. I remember as a little girl preferring to play outside..."cowboys and Indians" and to climb trees. (Although I did also play lots of "paper dolls.") I would have been described as a "tomboy." And yet I dropped all that early on....and became very interested in "girl things" in my early teens. There was this one little boy in our neighborhood who wanted to play "paper dolls" all the time with the girls...and didn't want to ever play with the boys outside. I'm talking about before grade school. And sure enough.....he grew up to be gay and is now living in San Francisco. But it doesn't necessarily always mean that's going to be the case.

Also.....ever notice this? Give a little 9 month old baby boy a little car to play with....and he'll make "car noises." It seem very automatic with them.

Some of it just has to be innate it seems to me.
__________________
"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:37 PM
Rebellion's Avatar
Rebellion Rebellion is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 13,995
usa
Rebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond reputeRebellion has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 124,425
Default it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion";p=&quot View Post
correct. To call for his job speaks to those who believe in free speech as long as it's free speech they agree with.
If your main point is that calling for Sommer's job is an extreme reaction to what he said, I agree. Absent that extreme, I think he's fair game for at least some criticism given his position.

And lets also note that at least some of the people calling for his head have other axes to grind with him; this is just a convenient leverage point. That's politics. Doesn't make it right or even particularly attractive; but it makes it more understandable.
I think it's ridiculous that she should have to defend his right to speak his opinion, one that is clearly based on some facts, and fight to keep his job. Others are welcome to criticize him. If someone is against the war they have the right to say so and others have the right to criticize him for opposing it. But to have to defend their right to keep their job is ridiculous.

I'm not sure the feminists have much of an axe other than they don't like hearing the words.
__________________
All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 01:12 PM
LoSconosciuto's Avatar
LoSconosciuto LoSconosciuto is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,276
usa us virginia
LoSconosciuto will become famous soon enoughLoSconosciuto will become famous soon enough
Credits: 15,574
Default And not even a bigoted opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion";p=&quot View Post
I think it's ridiculous that she should have to defend his right to speak his opinion, one that is clearly based on some facts, and fight to keep his job. Others are welcome to criticize him. If someone is against the war they have the right to say so and others have the right to criticize him for opposing it. But to have to defend their right to keep their job is ridiculous.

I'm not sure the feminists have much of an axe other than they don't like hearing the words.
Yet his opponents don't challenge the data or the conclusion with factual counter points... just more loud noises.

While taking a class in logic, I had a professor who would play a game of word substitution, whenever one of us made a bonehead comment or a complaint about this or that. If we substituted the word male for female in this story, would we even hear a peep? If the professor had been a woman, and had made an even more inflammatory comment about males, would anything be said? And if you say yes... is Catharine MacKinnon still teaching law?
__________________
"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2005, 01:30 PM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 41
Posts: 17,633
usa us minnesota
raytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 110,854
Default Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoSconosciuto";p=&quot View Post
If the professor had been a woman, and had made an even more inflammatory comment about males, would anything be said? And if you say yes... is Catharine MacKinnon still teaching law?
Well, Sommers is president of Harvard, not a professor. A somewhat different, totally untenured (and far more political) position.

Not to defend an idiot, but I seem to recall a lot of people suggesting Ward Churchill should be fired. And he *is* a professor.
__________________
Man up.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden