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Old 03-22-2005, 07:55 AM
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I haven't posted on this site for awhile, it's a waste of time to be honest.
Obviously you dont really feel it is a waste of time. Because you keep doing it. Dont be a hypocrite.

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If Iran and N.K. are an axis of evil, why don't they align like the real axis forces in both world wars and use preemptive force?
Because NK has nukes, and because our forces are tied up with Iraq. We could attack Iran if we needed to, but it would make a mess of Iraq in the process.

Thats why.

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If Iran invaded Iraq right now, we would have to bring back the draft and it would devastate our economy even more then it already is.
Why would we have to bring back the draft? What makes you think we cant handle Iran with existing forces in the area?

People were predicting the draft with Iraq too. They were also wrong. I hope our enemies continue to underestimate us as much as you obviously do...

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They wouldn't even need to invade, they could just shoot some missiles at us and make us invade them.
Why would we need to invade? We could simply bomb them.

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If they are such a threat, what are they waiting for???
We are waiting to see if they will cooperate willingly, and save us both the trouble of stomping them down. I dont expect diplomacy to work, but it is worth a try.

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If anyone believes our all volunteer military could take another country much stronger then Iraq was before we invaded THE SECOND TIME, after their military was wrecked from the first war, you are seriously out of touch with the real situation.
We've heard it all before. Things are never as bad as liberals assume they are. They have nothing that can stand against us.

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So, what is stopping the Iranians?
Maybe they have a better grasp of our capabilities than you do, heh heh

They got a ringside seat when we rampaged through the Taliban and Saddam's government. Maybe they dont want to be the next example.

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I thought they don't care if they are blown up!
They dont care if their people are blown up.

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Let's see. First of all, the President doesn't even make any decisions. He is simply a facial appearence of a party of a conglomeration of interests behind him.
Legally, yes, he does make all the decisions. He may choose to follow the advice of his advisors...but he can ignore it any time he wants.

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The President is simply a PR figure, that is about it. You really think Bush is an intelligent person?
You people keep saying how he is an evil genius that has the masses trained to do whatever he wants. Then you call him an idiot. Which is it? Make up your mind.

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And also, I remember when we were supposed to go into Iraq and be done within a few months at the expense of 20 billion dollars as the oil in Iraq would pay for it all.
It might still. Their industry is still on it's knees. They need to get back on their feet before we can be paid back.

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The government has and always will be a bunch of liars with their own agendas and an excellent grasp of PR.
So why do you bother? You cant change anything anyway, right?

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China has f-16 technology among other things thanks to them
Source please.

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So why don't we go get it? After all, we wouldn't want SYRIA to have WMDs, would we?
Be patient.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Yeah.....well, that's why we don't pay YOU the big bucks to make these decisions....and you weren't elected to anything so you don't get to make those decisions as to who gets attacked and who doesn't. Not to mention that YOU also don't have all the information at hand that the president does.
Well said, JP!
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:47 AM
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http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/isr...s%20to%20China

Here is a source for the Israeli weapons deals.

I never said Bush was an evil genius. I certainly did not say he is a genius, and I don't even believe I ever said he was evil. He is an all around ignorant bafoon, although he is somewhat good at PR as the layperson can identify with him. Find where I said that please.

We could not invade Iran at the moment, you are out of your freaking mind if you think that. It was a part of the original plan I believe, as we invaded the countries surrounding Iran, but we couldn't do it without a draft now, which is not going to happen anytime soon. Most of our troops are already on significantly exentended tours of duty, and a great deal of our equipment is spent and worn out. Also, many of the coalition troops are now pulling out, and I do not even believe Britain would support an invasion of Iran as well. That is why the Iranians could win if they attacked Iraq at the moment, it would either force a draft, or force Europe to come in, and Europe may not do so in the first place! It would make Iraq a mess, that is the entire point. It would make Iraq a failure.

And yes, N.K. does have nuclear weapons, that is the other point I am trying to make. Why don't they shoot one at Japan right now while they have the chance? If their leaders aren't willing to die for something, are they really that big of a threat? Leaders can not exist without their people following them, and they have to fear Revolution. That is why they are not the danger you make them out to be. You simply take things out of context and put words in my mouth. I don't believe you have ever given any sources at all whatsoever, so if anyone is the hypocrite, it is yourself. And for the person who told me I don't have the information Bush had, what information is that? Do you have it? Take a look at the facts. Gas is through the roof, our stocks are all shot, our military is bruised and battered, and we have a huge deficit. The middle east is just as dangerous, if not more so then it ever was, and our allies are further from us then they have ever been. Iraq has 25 million people, that is worth devastating a superpower over? Right...

Do you want sources for the stock market being in a slump, the largest deficit in history, the highest gas prices since Reagan--go figure, another moron--and the military being battered? When Clinton was in office, our economy grew faster then it ever had, gas was half the price it is now, Kosovo was efficiently fought with allies, and the budget was in a surplus. The Democrats still are not nearly as efficient as this country could be, and they are only moderates, but they are still much better then Republicans. Both are rich aristocrats, but at least the one knows how to keep their wealth and the people happy. Republicans will be done after this, what else do they have to go on? Their social security plan? Hahahahaha. Government will always be evil, there is simply a lesser evil and a lesser liar. You're a utilitarian, right? Psh.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:23 PM
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Do you want sources for the stock market being in a slump, the largest deficit in history, the highest gas prices since Reagan--go figure, another moron--and the military being battered? When Clinton was in office, our economy grew faster then it ever had, gas was half the price it is now, Kosovo was efficiently fought with allies, and the budget was in a surplus. The Democrats still are not nearly as efficient as this country could be, and they are only moderates, but they are still much better then Republicans. Both are rich aristocrats, but at least the one knows how to keep their wealth and the people happy. Republicans will be done after this, what else do they have to go on? Their social security plan? Hahahahaha. Government will always be evil, there is simply a lesser evil and a lesser liar. You're a utilitarian, right? Psh.
The stock market is in a slump today, it was not in a slump in 2003. The market will rise and fall. In this case oil prices are hurting the market. However, in terms of gas prices you may want to try a little research. Adjusting for inflation gas prices are similar now as they were at the peak of gas prices under Clinton. Gas prices were even lower under Reagan. The highest gas prices were under Nixon and Carter.

The budget was only balanced because Congress forced him to balance it (oh, he also had the line item veto). I do wish congress was as fiscally efficient today as it was then.

Kosovo was not done with our aliies and was protested by several countries at the time. We did not have UN sanction.

So other than a half dozen mistakes your post was spot on.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:32 PM
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We could not invade Iran at the moment, you are out of your freaking mind if you think that.
Iran is not some big super power. You are out of your freaking mind if you think that.

They'd be an annoyance to us (because it would delay stabalization of Iraq)...thats about it.

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It was a part of the original plan I believe, as we invaded the countries surrounding Iran, but we couldn't do it without a draft now, which is not going to happen anytime soon.
The only people that have supported a draft so far are liberals. And liberals are in the minority on Congress right now. So I wouldnt hold my breath on a draft if I were you.

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That is why the Iranians could win if they attacked Iraq at the moment
So why arnt they attacking? It sounds like they have every incentive to, right?

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If their leaders aren't willing to die for something, are they really that big of a threat?
Yes. because they wont die in a retaliatory strike. Their people will. Therefore they have less of an incentive to avoid aggressive violence.

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Leaders can not exist without their people following them, and they have to fear Revolution.
They cant even revolt against him now...what chance would they have if their numbers are depleted through a retaliatory strike?

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I don't believe you have ever given any sources at all whatsoever, so if anyone is the hypocrite, it is yourself.
I have provided numerous links. Everything else is my opinion, which I openly admit. I dont try to cloak my opinion as fact, as a lot of liberals on here do.

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And for the person who told me I don't have the information Bush had, what information is that?
Are you saying you believe you have access to the same data the President does?

If not, then my statement is accurate.

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Gas is through the roof, our stocks are all shot, our military is bruised and battered, and we have a huge deficit.
How many terrorist attacks have occurred since 911? That is the return we got.

And the economy has been steadily improving for a while now.

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The middle east is just as dangerous, if not more so then it ever was
There are fewer despots in the Middle East than there were before.

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and our allies are further from us then they have ever been.
Our allies were always further away from us than we thought. We just didnt know it then.

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Iraq has 25 million people, that is worth devastating a superpower over?
No superpower has been devastated over Iraq or it's 25 million people.

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Do you want sources for the stock market being in a slump, the largest deficit in history, the highest gas prices since Reagan
The alternatives were worse. And the economy has been improving.

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Both are rich aristocrats, but at least the one knows how to keep their wealth and the people happy.
By putting us at risk. Clinton did not have to deal with 911 or it's fallout.

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Republicans will be done after this, what else do they have to go on?
Gee, where have we heard that before? The republicans will stay in power because all liberals can do is complain. They have no better solutions. The masses can see that now.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:47 PM
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Almost the entire time Bush has been in office gas has been high, while it may have only been a short period with Clinton. Gas was at its highest peak ever under Reagan, it was at $3.08 adjusted for inflation in 1981.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/14/news....reut/?cnn=yes

As for Congress, either way, it was still a surplus under Clinton, and the administration has large control of the budget. I never said Kosovo was not wrong either, it was a load of crap. That is my entire point--there is no difference between either party really. However, it was done efficiently for the most part (as far as costs, not in saving civilians) and we didn't lose nearly as many troops. NATO was more involved then it is in Iraq today. And it was not protested nearly as much as the war in Iraq.
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:33 PM
cleanskater cleanskater is offline
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oh, and 911 didn't happen under Clinton--whose fault was that? Clinton listened to his memos it seems.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2005, 01:52 PM
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Hey, Saviour, and you're right, you've always been right. I am evil too, and a hypocrite. I also don't know anything. But I admit it. That is why I will always be a step ahead of you.
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cleanskater";p=&quot View Post
Almost the entire time Bush has been in office gas has been high, while it may have only been a short period with Clinton. Gas was at its highest peak ever under Reagan, it was at $3.08 adjusted for inflation in 1981.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/14/news....reut/?cnn=yes

As for Congress, either way, it was still a surplus under Clinton, and the administration has large control of the budget. I never said Kosovo was not wrong either, it was a load of crap. That is my entire point--there is no difference between either party really. However, it was done efficiently for the most part (as far as costs, not in saving civilians) and we didn't lose nearly as many troops. NATO was more involved then it is in Iraq today. And it was not protested nearly as much as the war in Iraq.
Right, within 30 days of Reagan being sworn in, but that was his fault! Gas prices rose under Nixon and then Carter and only hit the peak and reversed shortly after Reagan was elected.
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ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2005, 02:49 PM
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And why was it their fault that gas rose in the first place? A little war called Vietnam and puppet governments the U.S. controlled? Hm..not much has changed it seems. Carter tried running the U.S. on corn and was taken down by members of his own party, he was one of the best Presidents in history--he just had a horrible administration. lol.

And Id like to see some evidence that says we could defeat Iran right now if they invaded Iraq without us needing a draft Savior. Give me sources for once, hahahaha.
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