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Old 06-30-2009, 02:44 PM
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How will higher taxes control the weather?
What in the sentence I wrote discusses taxes? It's below for reference.

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Old 06-30-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Frogger View Post
Some are lying and some are simply relying on faulty data. The results are the same though, an overblown panic about something that isn't even happening.
And this refers to thousands of scientist around the world - scientists from places like Australia, Japan, UK, Russia, Norway, Sweden etc?

It also seemingly refers to the over 180 countries that have been convinced of the problem and have signed Kyoto.

Biggest scam in history then
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by livefree View Post
As the world's climate scientists issue ever more urgent warnings about the disastrous consequences of mankind's carbon emissions on the environment and Earth's climate systems, the right wing cabal of climate change deniers with a vested interest in fossil fuel profits continues to delay and dilute any meaningful effort to deal with this planetary crisis. We are systematically degrading and destroying the world our children will inherit for the sake of the short term profits of blind, greedy fools. Over the next decade, as the consequences of these delaying tactics become more obvious and more deadly, it is my hope that those responsible will be brought up on charges of 'crimes against humanity' and hung like Nazi war criminals.

Scientists warn of climate catastrophe

June 18th, 2009

The world faces a growing risk of "abrupt and irreversible climatic shifts" as fallout from global warming hits faster than expected, according to research by international scientists released Thursday.

Global surface and ocean temperatures, sea levels, extreme climate events, the retreat of Arctic sea ice are all increasing significantly faster than experts predicted, they warned.

The stark warning comes less than six months before an international conference aiming to seal a global treaty to save the planet from the worst ravages of global warming.

A 36-page document summarized more than 1,400 studies presented at a climate conference in March in Copenhagen, where a new meeting will be held in December to hammer out successor to the Kyoto Protocol.

It said greenhouse gas emissions and other climate indicators are at or near the upper boundaries forecast by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), whose 2007 report has been the scientific benchmark for the troubled UN talks.

There is also new evidence that the planet itself has begun to contribute to global warming through fall out from human activity.

Huge stores of gases such as methane -- an even more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide -- trapped for millennia in the Arctic permafrost may be starting to leak into the atmosphere, speeding up the warming process.

The natural capacity of the oceans and forests to absorb CO2 created by the burning of fossil fuels has also been compromised, research has shown.

The new report, written and reviewed by many of the scientists who compiled the IPCC document, calls on policy makers to take urgent steps to keep average global temperatures from increasing more than two degrees Centigrade (3.6 degree Fahrenheit), compared to pre-industrial levels.

"Rapid, sustained, and effective mitigation ... is required to avoid 'dangerous climate change' regardless of how it is defined," it said.

"Temperature rises above 2 Celsius will be difficult for contemporary societies to cope with, and are likely to cause major societal and environmental disruptions through the rest of the century and beyond."

The IPCC has said that achieving this goal would require industrialised nations to slash greenhouse gas emissions by 25-40 percent compared to 1990 levels.

The new report suggested that deep and early emissions cuts -- one of the most contentious issues on the table in the UN talks -- are essential.

"Weaker targets for 2020 increase the risk of serious impacts, including the crossing of tipping points" beyond which natural forces reinforce the warming process.

(c) 2009 AFP

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
I seem to remember the Chicken Little Scientists squawking about the coming Ice Age back in 1974. When there's some "Real" evidence the warming is man made, that doesn't include the phrase "very likely", let us know.
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bowerbird View Post
And this refers to thousands of scientist around the world - scientists from places like Australia, Japan, UK, Russia, Norway, Sweden etc?

It also seemingly refers to the over 180 countries that have been convinced of the problem and have signed Kyoto.

Biggest scam in history then
Many of those countries also brought us 2 world wars in the last 100 years. Sorry if I doubt their judgment.
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
I seem to remember the Chicken Little Scientists squawking about the coming Ice Age back in 1974. When there's some "Real" evidence the warming is man made, that doesn't include the phrase "very likely", let us know.
Quote:
This hypothesis never had significant scientific support, but gained temporary popular attention due to a combination of press reports that did not accurately reflect the scientific understanding of ice age cycles, and a slight downward trend of temperatures from the 1940s to the early 1970s. General scientific opinion is that the Earth has not durably cooled, but undergone global warming throughout the 20th century.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/..._Print_SPM.pdf

Aww bummer another talking point bites the dust.

Last edited by radical student; 06-30-2009 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
I seem to remember the Chicken Little Scientists squawking about the coming Ice Age back in 1974. When there's some "Real" evidence the warming is man made, that doesn't include the phrase "very likely", let us know.
A widely-held right-wing myth...

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-...s-in-1970s.htm

What the science said:

http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/131047.pdf
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:58 PM
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More than two-thirds of temperature sensors used to estimate global warming are located near artificial heating sources such as air conditioning vents, asphalt paving, or buildings. These sources are likely to introduce artifacts greater than 2 °C into the temperature record.

Look... the Russians already figured out how to cool the planet by seeding a ton of sulfur particulates in the air.

Volcanoes will erupt, the temperature will fall it will rise. Man has little to no provable impact.

If you want to do something about CO2 start pumping ocean water into the deserts and plant grass.

This is stupidity and just an ideological attack by authoritative statists and the willing idiots that follow them.
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Saryk View Post
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...9-7583,00.html

http://acuf.org/issues/issue62/060624cul.asp

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/D....aspx?id=68277

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...d06oct97_1.htm

Unlike the surface-based temperatures, global temperature measurements of the Earth's lower atmosphere obtained from satellites reveal no definitive warming trend over the past two decades. The slight trend that is in the data actually appears to be downward. The largest fluctuations in the satellite temperature data are not from any man-made activity, but from natural phenomena such as large volcanic eruptions from Mt. Pinatubo, and from El Niño. So the programs which model global warming in a computer say the temperature of the Earth's lower atmosphere should be going up markedly, but actual measurements of the temperature of the lower atmosphere reveal no such pronounced activity.
Another long refuted denier cult myth.

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data based on faulty analyses, studies find


By Ker Than
updated 2:51 p.m. PT, Thurs., Aug 11, 2005

For years, skeptics of global warming have used satellite and weather balloon data to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening.

Now, according to three new studies published in the journal Science, it turns out those conclusions based on satellite and weather balloon data were based on faulty analyses.

The atmosphere is indeed warming, not cooling as the data previously showed.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

While surface thermometers have clearly shown that the Earth's surface is warming, satellite and weather balloon data have actually suggested the opposite, that the atmosphere was cooling.

Scientists were left with two choices: either the atmosphere wasn't warming up, or something was wrong with the data.

"But most people had to conclude, based on the fact that there were both satellite and balloon observations, that it really wasn't warming up," said Steven Sherwood, a geologists at Yale University and lead author of one of the studies.

Oops!
Sherwood examined weather balloons known as radiosondes, which are capable of making direct measurements of atmospheric temperatures.

For the past 40 years, radiosonde temperature data have been collected from around the world twice each day, once during the day and once at night.

But while nighttime radiosonde measurements were consistent with climate models and theories showing a general warming trend, daytime measurements actually showed the atmosphere to be cooling since the 1970's.

Sherwood explains these discrepancies by pointing out that the older radiosonde instruments used in the 1970's were not as well shielded from sunlight as more recent models. What this means as that older radiosondes showed warmer temperature readings during the day because they were warmed by sunlight.

"It's like being outside on a hot day—it feels hotter when you are standing in the direct sun than when you are standing in the shade," Sherwood said.

Nowadays, radiosondes are better insulated against the effects of sunlight, but if analyzed together with the old data—which showed temperatures that were actually warmer than they really were—the overall effect looked like the troposphere was cooling.

The discrepancy between surface and atmospheric measurements has been used by for years by skeptics who dispute claims of global warming.

"Now we're learning that the disconnect is more apparent than real," said Ben Santer, an atmospheric scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California and a lead author of another of the studies.

Argument evaporates
According to Santer, the only group to previously analyze satellite data on the troposphere -- the lowest layer in Earth's atmosphere -- was a research team headed by Roy Spencer from University of Alabama in 1992.

"This was used by some critics to say 'We don't believe in climate models, they're wrong,'" Santer told LiveScience. "Other people used the disconnect between what the satellites told and what surface thermometers told us to argue that the surface data were wrong and that earth wasn't really warming because satellites were much more accurate."

The Alabama researchers introduced a correction factor to account for drifting in the satellites used to sample Earth's daily temperature cycles.

But in another Science paper published today, Carl Mears and Rank Wentz, scientists at the California-based Remote Sensing Systems, examined the same data and identified an error in Spencer's analysis technique.

After correcting for the mistake, the researchers obtained fundamentally different results: whereas Spencer's analysis showed a cooling of the Earth's troposphere, the new analysis revealed a warming.

Using the analysis from Mears and Wentz, Santer showed that the new data was consistent with climate models and theories.

"When people come up with extraordinary claims -- like the troposphere is cooling -- then you demand extraordinary proof," Santer said. "What's happening now is that people around the world are subjecting these data sets to the scrutiny they need."

© 2009 LiveScience.com. All rights reserved.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Saryk View Post
For something to be a FACT, it has to be proven and can’t be refuted.
So sary, prove global warming isn't a huge problem, and see if we can't refute your 'proof'. C'mon little dude, show us all why you're so convinced.

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Originally Posted by Saryk View Post
This is no different than people claiming that the world was flat. Once the discovery was proven, then it became fact, not before.
The way you put it makes it seem you still think the Earth is flat. LOL.

Beyond that you're just being absurd if you think it wasn't really a "FACT" that the Earth was round until it was "proven".

"fact: noun
1 : something that has actual existence : a matter of objective reality"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saryk View Post
So until there is irrefutable evidence, global warming is a not a problem.
Even besides the fact that you still seem to think the world is flat, your whole statement is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Global warming and the climate changes that it is producing are very real and scientifically well observed and will cause great human suffering in the decades and centuries to come and those are facts that certainly don't depend on ideologically blinded, scientifically illiterate denier cultists accepting them as "FACT".
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:20 PM
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Actually what your article is really arguing is that the data from the past is not reliable at all. Couple that with the current sensors being located near air conditioning vents and other heat generating elements there is no real case to be made on "the data".
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by HB Surfer View Post
More than two-thirds of temperature sensors used to estimate global warming are located near artificial heating sources such as air conditioning vents, asphalt paving, or buildings. These sources are likely to introduce artifacts greater than 2 °C into the temperature record.

Look... the Russians already figured out how to cool the planet by seeding a ton of sulfur particulates in the air.

Volcanoes will erupt, the temperature will fall it will rise. Man has little to no provable impact.

If you want to do something about CO2 start pumping ocean water into the deserts and plant grass.

This is stupidity and just an ideological attack by authoritative statists and the willing idiots that follow them.
"This is stupidity" and that pretty much sums up your post.

6 December 2004
The Surface Temperature Record and the Urban Heat Island

There are quite a few reasons to believe that the surface temperature record - which shows a warming of approximately 0.6°-0.8°C over the last century (depending on precisely how the warming trend is defined) - is essentially uncontaminated by the effects of urban growth and the Urban Heat Island (UHI) effect. These include that the land, borehole and marine records substantially agree; and the fact that there is little difference between the long-term (1880 to 1998 ) rural (0.70°C/century) and full set of station temperature trends (actually less at 0.65°C/century). This and other information lead the IPCC to conclude that the UHI effect makes at most a contribution of 0.05°C to the warming observed over the past century.

More recently two papers have sought to show directly that the effect is minimal. David Parker in a recent paper in Nature, said:

Urban heat islands occur mainly at night and are reduced in windy conditions. Here we show that, globally, temperatures over land have risen as much on windy nights as on calm nights, indicating that the observed overall warming is not a consequence of urban development.

The reasoning behind this is that the major cause of urban heat islands is the reduced cooling that occurs at night when the “view to space” of the surface is blocked by buildings. In more rural areas, cooling can be stronger. This is more likely to occur in calm conditions, when air near the surface is less well mixed with air higher up. Since the UHI effect is reduced in windy conditions, if the UHI effect was a significant component of the temperature record, then we would see a different rate of warming when observations are stratified by calm or windy conditions. The absence of such an effect (which is what Parker finds) is, conversely, evidence of a minimal UHI effect on the record.

The Parker paper, however, is very brief and recent and has not had time to be fully tested by the scientific community. A paper by Peterson (2003) is of interest because it has been out for a while and is more comprehensive. It agrees with Parker. The paper, “Assessment of urban versus rural in situ surface temperatures in the contiguous United States: No difference found” published in the Journal of Climate finds that the effects of the urban heat island may have been overstated and that “Contrary to generally accepted wisdom, no statistically significant impact of urbanization could be found in annual temperatures.”. This was done by using satellite-based night-light detection of urban areas, and more thorough homogenisation of the time series (with corrections, for example, for the tendency of surrounding rural stations to be slightly higher, and thus cooler, than urban areas). As the paper says, if its conclusion is accepted, then it is necessary to “unravel the mystery of how a global temperature time series created partly from urban in situ stations could show no contamination from urban warming”. The main conclusion is that micro- and local-scale impacts dominate the meso-scale impact of the urban heat island: many sections of towns may be warmer than rural sites, but meteorological observations are likely to be made in park “cool islands”.

The evidence points to a warming of about 0.6-0.8°C over the past century and a neglible effect on this from the UHI. While some ‘contrarians’ appear determined not to accept this finding, the evidence they cite appears thin indeed compared with the published research.

References:

Parker, D.E., Large-Scale Warming is not Urban, Nature 432, 290, doi:10.1038/432290a, 2004.

Peterson, T.C., Assessment of urban versus rural in situ surface temperatures in the contiguous United States: No difference found, Journal of Climate, 16, 2941-2959, 2003.
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