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Old 05-30-2005, 03:41 AM
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Default What 'non' means?

BBC News, Kirsty Hughes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4552937.stm

Quote:
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The No from France is likely to plunge the EU into an unprecedented crisis.

It reflects a variety of factors:

- Dissatisfaction with the current French government
- Worries (mostly misplaced) that the constitution moves the EU in an "Anglo-Saxon" direction economically
- General concerns at the development of the EU, especially a perceived reduction of France's influence in the enlarged Union
- Concerns at possible future membership of Turkey in the EU.
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Quote:
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While he admits that in Poland itself many will be glad to see the back of the constitution, he thinks the likely "mother of all crises" would be very damaging for the EU.
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Quote:
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'Core' Europe

It has been argued that France and Germany will react by moving ahead with long discussed plans to create a so-called "core" Europe, leaving behind the British and other sceptical countries who hesitate on political integration.
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Quote:
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Some suggest the EU could take some of the key parts of the constitution - an EU foreign minister, new voting arrangements, the European Council presidency - and push these through separately.

But not only are these things at the heart of the constitution, making it a rather cynical exercise to push ahead, it also means what is left out is all the hard work done to clarify, simplify and make more consistent current EU structures.

Better would be to go back to the drawing board with the aim of producing a much more understandable accessible text: but for now this looks the least likely outcome.
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I believe that, what ever the development is, the change is inevitable.. I don't believe that the current enlarged union is long viable with the demand of absolute consensus for decisions and unclear and messy division of power..

My ideal of the future Europe would be with direct democracy, from the people to electorates.. Raising the European parlament as the highest authority above the comission and the ministry council would serve this purpose.. Commonly, the divisions between the groups in decision making should be made by ideological lines instead of regional lines..

Also the division of power should be cleared between the states and the union.. The union parlament should have strong authority, but only in the decisions, that demands the collective body's attension and are truly beneficial to make at the highest level.. The states would hold their power and autonomy in everything else.. If there is no strong reasons for decisions to be done in the European level, the local authorities know best the local conditions and the local needs for legistlation.. Commonly, the decisions should be made as near the people as possible..

I believe, that the areas of foreign and military politics are most beneficial to be done in the European level.. Also some economic and social political guidelines should be accepted in the European level, simply because in a free-trade area the individual states might fall in the competition for the capital and corporation locations.. This could sabotage the individual states' efforts for social improvements..

- BtD
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2005, 08:34 AM
Grisu Grisu is offline
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Originally Posted by BtD";p=&quot View Post
BBC News, Kirsty Hughes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4552937.stm

I believe that, what ever the development is, the change is inevitable.. I don't believe that the current enlarged union is long viable with the demand of absolute consensus for decisions and unclear and messy division of power..

My ideal of the future Europe would be with direct democracy, from the people to electorates.. Raising the European parlament as the highest authority above the comission and the ministry council would serve this purpose.. Commonly, the divisions between the groups in decision making should be made by ideological lines instead of regional lines..

Also the division of power should be cleared between the states and the union.. The union parlament should have strong authority, but only in the decisions, that demands the collective body's attension and are truly beneficial to make at the highest level.. The states would hold their power and autonomy in everything else.. If there is no strong reasons for decisions to be done in the European level, the local authorities know best the local conditions and the local needs for legistlation.. Commonly, the decisions should be made as near the people as possible..

I believe, that the areas of foreign and military politics are most beneficial to be done in the European level.. Also some economic and social political guidelines should be accepted in the European level, simply because in a free-trade area the individual states might fall in the competition for the capital and corporation locations.. This could sabotage the individual states' efforts for social improvements..

- BtD
Sorry but I am in disagreement. The EU should be a trade group, not a common government. It has brought nothing but grief since the Euro came, has destroyed more than it has remedied and you will never get all the folks under the same hat. Also, how do you weigh the seats in parliament? Do the Dutch with their 15 million inhabitans get the same amount of seats as the Germans with 75 Million? How about the rights of the Dutch to refuse laws made for them by others? How about national identies? There has been a long history of pride in each state of the EU. You can't do away with it!
As far as military unity goes, we already have NATO and that should remain the primary and sole military organization....
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Old 05-30-2005, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisu";p=&quot View Post
Sorry but I am in disagreement. The EU should be a trade group, not a common government. It has brought nothing but grief since the Euro came, has destroyed more than it has remedied and you will never get all the folks under the same hat. Also, how do you weigh the seats in parliament? Do the Dutch with their 15 million inhabitans get the same amount of seats as the Germans with 75 Million? How about the rights of the Dutch to refuse laws made for them by others? How about national identies? There has been a long history of pride in each state of the EU. You can't do away with it!
As far as military unity goes, we already have NATO and that should remain the primary and sole military organization....
This is partly value, partly practical question..

I would say, that there are some core facts for more deeper integration.. These creates the pratical side of the question....

1. The free-trade area is here to stay.. The internal markets of single European countries are too small to be considered healthy or competitive..

2. In a free-trade area, where free capital and people movements are allowed, there will be a competition for capital, employing investments and people.. There will be also increasing competition to decrease the minimum wages and the minimal worker benefits to lure the investments..

3. The fact 2 will limit individual goverment's choises overall.. Especially this development will sabotage individual state's possibilities to implement social programs..

4. This competition can be only restricted with the harmonization of taxation and the economic frame.. If the European people overall value social programs etc.., the decisions can effectively only be made at the European level.. For this reason, some kind of European legistlative body is needed (which is also exist).. It would be also preferable, if it had an healthy and viable decision making system, so it could actually make and execute the needed decisions..

5. In many cases there are certain 'benefits of greatness'.. We can take an example of the military research, where the benefits became clear.. If military research is done European wide instead of single countries, this will easily 10 time the efficiency of research.. There is no need to reinvent the wheel in every singular country..

6. One of the greatest benefits became in the area of foreign politics.. If the European countries are able to behave as a single entity, their collective ability to operate and realize their political goals is considerable greater ~ like comparable to the U.S.. This presuming, that the European countries can accept some common political goals and values..

7. The integration of the military supports first security, but also the ability to operate and execute foreign policy..

8. It will pacify Europe.. The possibility that the WW3 would be fought inside Europe disappears..

These are the practical reasons.. The value reasons are like more connected with the national identity.. There are of course other value questions, but - in reality - they might not be so simple as they look..

For example, I would see the reasoning of keeping the decisions and power near the citizens/nations questionable.. This is simply because the number 2.. If that 'power' is not transferred to the higher level, it is likely destroyed by the economic competition of the member states inside the free-trade area.. This makes the reasoning quite futile..

- BtD
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