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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:31 PM
gmb92 gmb92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
Don't let 'em BS you, there are plenty of peer reviewed papers skeptical of global warming being man made.

Try Here:

http://petesplace-peter.blogspot.com...al-of-man.html
Really? This site lists a couple of studies by Rahmstorf and claims they show skeptism of manmade global warming. Here is Ramstorf's site on global warming:

http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~stefan/warmingfacts.pdf

One quote:

"CO2 is a gas that affects climate by changing the earth’s radiation
budget: an increase in its concentration leads to a rise in
near-surface temperature. This has been known since the 19th
Century and is well-established physics. If the concentration doubles,
the resulting global mean warming will very likely be between
2 and 4°C (the most probable value is ~3ºC), with the remaining
uncertainty due to climatic feedback effects."

Pretty standard consensus view.

The site also lists studies not published in any cited peer-reviewed journal (many are in Energy & Environment, for example), some are older studies from the 1980's, a few are obsolete (replaced by more recent studies). But the vast majority of them don't argue against anthropogenic global warming. Nice try, though.
__________________
"You have shown what history teaches us - that at defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington."

- President Barack Obama, 8/28/08

"To the average American who’s struggling, we’re in some other stratosphere. We’re the party of Big Business and Big Oil and the rich."

- Sen. Olympia Snowe (R)

Budget surplus inherited by Bush: $236 billion (CBO, 2000)

Budget deficit inherited by Obama: $1,667 billion (CBO projection, 3/2009)
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:34 PM
gmb92 gmb92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperial View Post
no its not..To list but a few key facts: • Hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific studies from all over the world indicate a Medieval Warm Period as warm or warmer than present temperatures. Recent warming is not unprecedented. • Numerous studies of extreme weather incidences indicate that recent occurrences are also not unprecedented, nor even unusual. • The tropical mid-tropospheric warming predicted by the models as a prominent signature of CO2-induced global warming has not occurred. The models are wrong about the dominant area of warming. • Most of the warming predicted by the models comes from increased relative humidity acting as a positive feedback to amplify CO2-induced warming. This too has not occurred. The models are thus also wrong about the major source of warming. • Contrary to greenhouse warming expectations, southern hemisphere trends have shown negligible warming.• The global temperature trend has been flat for a decade despite increasing CO2.• Most important of all, global temperatures have declined markedly in both hemispheres over the past two years, with widespread record and near record lows.The current cooling was unpredicted by any models. Although warming advocates have tried to dismiss it as only natural internal variability, they have previously strongly denied any such possibility in connection with warming.

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/More...most_Daily.pdf
Wow! You managed to cram a remarkably large number of false statements into such a short paragraph. Congratulations!
__________________
"You have shown what history teaches us - that at defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington."

- President Barack Obama, 8/28/08

"To the average American who’s struggling, we’re in some other stratosphere. We’re the party of Big Business and Big Oil and the rich."

- Sen. Olympia Snowe (R)

Budget surplus inherited by Bush: $236 billion (CBO, 2000)

Budget deficit inherited by Obama: $1,667 billion (CBO projection, 3/2009)
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:38 PM
imperial imperial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmb92 View Post
Wow! You managed to cram a remarkably large number of false statements into such a short paragraph. Congratulations!
you managed to not be able to refute them......so here they are again.

• Hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific studies from all over the world indicate a Medieval Warm Period as warm or warmer than present temperatures. Recent warming is not unprecedented.

• Numerous studies of extreme weather incidences indicate that recent occurrences are also not unprecedented, nor even unusual.

• The tropical mid-tropospheric warming predicted by the models as a prominent signature of CO2-induced global warming has not occurred. The models are wrong about the dominant area of warming.

• Most of the warming predicted by the models comes from increased relative humidity acting as a positive feedback to amplify CO2-induced warming. This too has not occurred. The models are thus also wrong about the major source of warming.

• Contrary to greenhouse warming expectations, southern hemisphere trends have shown negligible warming.

• The global temperature trend has been flat for a decade despite increasing CO2.

• Most important of all, global temperatures have declined markedly in both hemispheres over the past two years, with widespread record and near record lows.The current cooling was unpredicted by any models. Although warming advocates have tried to dismiss it as only natural internal variability, they have previously strongly denied any such possibility in connection with warming.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:43 PM
gmb92 gmb92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperial View Post
you managed to not be able to refute them......so here they are again.

• Hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific studies from all over the world indicate a Medieval Warm Period as warm or warmer than present temperatures. Recent warming is not unprecedented.

• Numerous studies of extreme weather incidences indicate that recent occurrences are also not unprecedented, nor even unusual.

• The tropical mid-tropospheric warming predicted by the models as a prominent signature of CO2-induced global warming has not occurred. The models are wrong about the dominant area of warming.

• Most of the warming predicted by the models comes from increased relative humidity acting as a positive feedback to amplify CO2-induced warming. This too has not occurred. The models are thus also wrong about the major source of warming.

• Contrary to greenhouse warming expectations, southern hemisphere trends have shown negligible warming.

• The global temperature trend has been flat for a decade despite increasing CO2.

• Most important of all, global temperatures have declined markedly in both hemispheres over the past two years, with widespread record and near record lows.The current cooling was unpredicted by any models. Although warming advocates have tried to dismiss it as only natural internal variability, they have previously strongly denied any such possibility in connection with warming.

Deniers never back up their claims with scientific references. Feel free to try.

I'll select a statement at random and refute it:

"Most of the warming predicted by the models comes from increased relative humidity acting as a positive feedback to amplify CO2-induced warming. This too has not occurred. "

Actually, many direct observations (in addition to paleoclimatic data) have revealed that water vapor is indeed a strong positive feedback.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2008/2008GL035333.shtml

Should I continue?
__________________
"You have shown what history teaches us - that at defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington."

- President Barack Obama, 8/28/08

"To the average American who’s struggling, we’re in some other stratosphere. We’re the party of Big Business and Big Oil and the rich."

- Sen. Olympia Snowe (R)

Budget surplus inherited by Bush: $236 billion (CBO, 2000)

Budget deficit inherited by Obama: $1,667 billion (CBO projection, 3/2009)
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:54 PM
imperial imperial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmb92 View Post
Deniers never back up their claims with scientific references. Feel free to try.

I'll select a statement at random and refute it:

"Most of the warming predicted by the models comes from increased relative humidity acting as a positive feedback to amplify CO2-induced warming. This too has not occurred. "

Actually, many direct observations (in addition to paleoclimatic data) have revealed that water vapor is indeed a strong positive feedback.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2008/2008GL035333.shtml

Should I continue?
continue??? lol !!! man there are reams of facts that gw is an elite money grubbing scam. i hope you put your life savings into the bubble...hahahahaha

Alaska’s Hubbard Glacier still advancing, but at a slower pace
By Climatologist Cliff Harris
30 Jun 09 – It appears to be continuing its advance into the fjord and
should eventually (maybe as early as next year, but almost certainly
within the next thirty or forty years) wrap itself around Gilbert Point
and turn the fjord into a glacier formed lake.
http://www.longrangeweather.com/Arti...rAdvancing.htm

Alaska's Hubbard Glacier advancing 7 feet per day!
10 May 09 – This from climatologist Cliff Harris of the Coeur d’Alene Press.
It's possible that the glacier could close the fjord by later this summer if the
current rate speeds up, says Harris.
See Alaska's Hubbard Glacier advancing 7 feet per day!
http://www.cdapress.com/articles/200.../columns06.prt

also, all with external links....Alaska’s ice thickens over unusual summer
By Climatologist Cliff Harris
9 Jun 09 – “Two hundred years of glacial shrinkage in Alaska, and then came
the winter and summer of 2007-2008. "In mid-June, I was surprised to see
snow still at sea level in Prince William Sound," said USGS glaciologist Bruce
Molnia. Bering Glacier did not become snow free until early August.
See Alaska’s ice thickens over unusual summer


Arctic ice twice as thick as expected
By Christopher Booker
9 May 09 - "As the clock ticks down towards December's historic
UN Copenhagen conference on climate change, the frenzied efforts of the
warmists to panic us over all that vanishing Arctic and Antarctic ice are
degenerating into farce."
See Arctic ice twice as thick as expected ..
.
.
Antarctic ice growing, not shrinking
By Greg Roberts
18 Apr 09 - "Ice is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the
widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap."
See Antarctic ice growing, not shrinking
.
.Antarctic sea ice up 4.7% since 1980 - where is the media?
5 Apr 09 – Yes, you read that right. The amount of sea ice around Antarctic has increased 4.7% since 1980. Yet all we hear about are the comparatively tiny areas where the ice is melting. Where is the media? See
Antarctic sea ice up 4.7% since 1980





Arctic Sea-Ice Extent:
Updated Daily
7 Apr 09 – Here’s a website
that shows the daily extent of
Arctic Sea Ice from 2002
until the present.
See
Arctic Sea-Ice Extent:
Updated Daily


..

Oops. We overlooked 193,000 square miles of ice
19 Feb 09 – Today, the National Snow and Ice
Data Center (NSIDC) admitted that they’ve underreported Arctic ice extent by 193,000 square miles (500,000 sq km). That's the size of 10 states!
See We overlooked 193,000 square miles of ice

..

Glaciers in Norway Growing Again
Scandinavian nation reverses trend, mirrors
results in Alaska, elsewhere, reports the Norwegian Water Resources and Energy Directorate.
See Glaciers in Norway Growing Again


.
Glaciers in western Himalayas thickening and expanding
Arctic ice cover above it’s 30-year average
23 Nov 08 - A study published by the American Meteorological Society
found that glaciers are only shrinking in the eastern Himalayas. Further
west, in the Hindu Kush and the Karakoram, glaciers are "thickening
and expanding".
See Glaciers in western Himalayas thickening and expanding
.
.
New Study Finds Greenland Ice Melt 'not changing' or 'dropping'
3 Jul 08 - A new Dutch study of 17 years of satellite measurements of ice
movement in western Greenland concludes that the speedup of the ice is a
transient summertime phenomenon.
See New Study Finds Greenland Ice Melt 'not changing' or 'dropping
.
.
Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain
17 Nov 08 – The ice-covered peak of Yukon's soaring Mount Logan
may be due for an official re-measurement after readings that suggest
this country's superlative summit has experienced a growth spurt.
See Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain
.
.
Arctic Sea Ice Growing at Fastest Rate in Recorded History
7 Nov 08 - An abnormally cool Arctic is seeing dramatic changes to
ice levels. The total amount of ice, which set a record low last year,
grew in October at the fastest pace since record-keeping began in 1979.
See Arctic Sea Ice Growing at Fastest Rate in Recorded History
.
..

Antarctic Ice Sheet growing
enough to lower sea levels
This paper, published in 2006, shows
that the Antarctic ice sheet is gaining
enough ice to lower – lower! - global
sea levels by 0.08 mm year.
See Antarctic Ice Sheet growing
enough to lower sea levels


..
Alaska's Glaciers Are Growing
By Dennis T. Avery - 28 Oct 08 – “Alaska’s glaciers grew this year, after
shrinking for most of the last 200 years. The reason? Global temperatures
dropped over the past 18 months. The global mean annual temperature has
been declining recently because the solar wind thrown out by the sun has
retreated to its smallest extent in at least 50 years.
See Alaska's Glaciers Are Growing
.
.
Alaskan Glaciers Grow for First Time in 250 years
16 Oct 08 - High snowfall and cold weather to blame leading
to the increase in glacial mass.
See Alaskan Glaciers Grow for First Time in 250 years
.
.
Much of Antarctica has been cooling for the last 35 years
Thirteen researchers found that temperatures dropped an average of
1.23 degrees Fahrenheit per decade from 1986 to 2000.
See Much of Antarctica has been cooling for the last 35 years
.
.
Climate change chicanery
Less ice in the Arctic in 1893 than today
14 Sep 08 – Lewis Gordon Pugh tried to paddle a kayak to the Pole
to demonstrate the vanishing Arctic ice. While still 600 miles short of
his goal, he met with ice so thick that he had to turn back. Conveniently
forgotten, is that in 1893 the Arctic was so ice-free that a Norwegian
explorer was able to kayak above 82 degrees north, 100 miles nearer
he Pole.
See Climate change chicanery
.
.


Alaskan glaciers advance one-third mile in less than a year
17 Jul 07 - "At least three glaciers in the same bay have advanced
in one year," says scientist at the Geophysical Institute at the
University of Alaska Fairbanks
See Alaskan Glaciers Advance One-Third Mile



Arctic ice INCREASES by nearly a half million square miles
over same time period in 2007
18 Jul 08 - Excerpt: the latest information on Arctic ice conditions is
just in from the National Snow and Ice Data Center.
See Arctic ice INCREASES by nearly a half million square miles
.
.
California Glaciers Growing …
so let’s rhapsodize about global warming
9 Jul 08 – An AP article today admits that all seven
glaciers on California’s Mount Shasta are growing,
then goes on to rhapsodize about global warming.
See California Glaciers Growing
.
.
Against odds, glacier grows in cauldron of Mt. St. Helens
15 May 08 – Inside the Mount St. Helens volcano "an unexpected
phenomenon is taking place: a glacier is growing." “It may be the only
growing glacier in America - or maybe the world. What a lie!
See Glacier grows in cauldron of Mt. St. Helens
.
.
Antarctic glaciers surge due to volcanic activity?
24 Feb 08 - Much higher up the glacier there is evidence of a volcano that erupted
through the ice about 2,000 years ago. "The whole region could be volcanically active,
releasing geothermal heat to melt the base of the ice and help its slide towards the sea."
See Antarctic glaciers surge to ocean
.
.
Magma May Be Melting Greenland Ice
18 Dec 07 - I added another article to this posting
13 Dec 07 - Scientists have found at least one natural-magma hotspot under
the Greenland Ice Sheet where heat from Earth’s insides could seep through,
See Magma May Be Melting Greenland Ice
.
.
Did earthquake trigger Antarctic ice collapse?
27 Mar 08 - There's been little or no publicity about an earthquake
on the Pacific-Antarctic ridge 3930 km (2440 miles) SE of Wellington,
New Zealand on 17 March 08.
See Did earthquake trigger Antarctic ice collapse?
.
.
Antarctic Ice Disappearing? Don’t you believe it
27 Mar 08 - "It’s a naturally occurring event," says Hans Schreuder,
"a MINOR event in world or Antarctic terms.
Here’s a map showing just how small an area it is."
http://www.ilovemycarbondioxide.com/Antarctic.html
.
.
It appears that Arctic ice isn't vanishing after all
4 Feb 08 - The latest satellite findings of northern hemisphere
sea ice area show it almost back to 13 million sq km.
See Arctic ice isn't vanishing after all
.
.
Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back
19 Feb 08 - A Feb. 18 report in the London Daily Express showed that there is nearly
a third more ice in Antarctica than usual, challenging the global warming crusaders and
buttressing arguments of skeptics who deny that the world is undergoing global warming.
See Most snow cover since 1966

Deep freeze in western Greenland
15 Feb 08 - The ice between Canada and southwestern
Greenland has reached its highest level in 15 years.



http://iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:55 PM
imperial imperial is offline
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more evidence you would like to try and refute..?


See Most Ice in 15 Years
.
.
Too Much Ice: Polar Bears Starving
16 Feb 08 - Al Gore says the polar bear need more ice to survive...
Now we have a lot of ice, but the polar bear is starving and find
their food at the garbage dumps in towns.
See Too Much Ice
.
.
Ice returns as Greenland temperatures plummet
16 Jan 08 - A brutal cold snap is raging across Greenland.
See Greenland Temperatures Plummet
.
.
Arctic Ice Freezing at Record Rate
12 Dec 07 - Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for
10 days in late October and early November, a new record.
See Arctic Ice Freezing at Record Rate



Glaciers Growing in France and Switzerland
28 Jun 07 – This news comes from a recent article in
the Journal of Geophysical Research.
See Glaciers Growing in France and Switzerland
.



.
Alaskan glaciers advance one-third
of a mile in less than a year
17 Jul 07 - "At least three glaciers in the same
bay have advanced in one year," said Chris
Larsen, a scientist at the Geophysical Institute
at the University of Alaska Fairbanks
See Alaskan Glaciers Advance One-Third Mile



.
Mount St. Helens’ Crater Glacier Advancing Three Feet Per Day
25 Jun 07 - See Crater Glacier
.
.
Fox, Franz Josef glaciers defy trend
New Zealand's two best-known glaciers
still on the march - 31 Jan 07
See Franz Josef Glacier
.
.
Manipulation of public perceptions
4 Dec 07 - While the media raised alarms over Arctic ice melt, they did
not report that Antarctic winter sea ice extent was the greatest on record.
See Manipulation of public perceptions
.

Reports of Record Arctic Ice Melt Disgracefully Ignore History
9 Sep 07 - See Reports of Record Arctic Ice Melt Disgracefully Ignore History
.
.
Mt. Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink
"Geodetic measurements carried out in 1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range indicate small thickness changes and show that these very high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by climate change over the last 100 years."
See Mt Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink
.
.


Himalayan Glaciers Not Shrinking
Glacial Experts Question Theory of Global Warming
15 Feb 07 - See Himalayan Glaciers Not Shrinking
.
.
Re-freeze begins in Arctic seas
22 Sep 07 - Arctic ice now covers 1.61 million
square miles, up from 1.59 million on September 16.
See Re-freeze Begins
.
.
No Global Warming in Antarctica
See No Global Warming in Antarctica
.
.
See also Greenland Icecap Growing Thicker
and Antarctic Icecap Growing Thicker
.
.
Rate of discharge at two of Greenland’s largest glaciers slows
13 Feb 07 - Glacial Discharge Slows
.
.
Record snows crush historic Antarctic hut - 28 Nov 06
See Record Snows Crush Antarctic Hut
.
.
Antarctic Ice Sheet Growing – Sea Levels Falling
8 Nov 06 - Antarctic Ice Sheet Growing – Sea Levels Falling
.
.
Another iceberg sighting -12 Nov 06
See Another New Zealand Iceberg
.
.
Large icebergs headed toward New Zealand coast
See Icebergs Spotted off New Zealand
.
.
Greenland losing about 100 billion tons of ice a year
That’s what the headline says. But when you get into the article
you learn that the rate of loss is much lower than other research
has suggested. (Less than half.)
See A hundred years for sea levels to rise half-an-inch
.
.
Antarctica growing colder - Measurements from NOAA show that
the vast preponderance of Antarctica cooled from 1982 to 2004.
See Antarctica Growing Colder
.
.
Himalayan glaciers not melting the way we’re being told - 17 Oct 06
Glaciers in the Himalayas have not drastically shrunk and are unlikely
to melt away in coming decades, said Chinese scientists Zhang Wenjing.
See Himalayan glaciers not melting
.
.
Antarctic Cooling Five Times Faster Than in Past 150 Years
See Antarctic Cooling Picks Up Speed
.
.
Yet More Glaciers Growing Due to "Global Warming" - 11 Sep 06
See More Glaciers Growing
.
.
Glaciers growing because of "global warming," new study claims
24 Aug 06 - See Glaciers growing because of global warming
.
.
Ice and snow piling up over a large area of Antarctica - 19 May 2005 -
See Antarctic Icecap Growing Thicker
.
.
Antarctic snow pack increasing 5 feet per year - 18 Jul 05 –
See Antarctic Icecap Growing Thicker
.
.
See also Greenland Icecap Growing Thicker
.
.
Glaciers growing because of global warming, new study claims
24 Aug 06 - See Glaciers growing because of global warming
.
.
Fifty of New Zealand's glaciers are growing -12 Jan 06
Two are advancing about three feet (one meter) a week.
Rare Icebergs Spotted off New Zealand - 6 Jan 05
See New Zealand Glaciers Growing
.
.
Greenland glaciers double their rate of advance - 3 Feb 06 -
See Rate_of_Advance_Doubles
.
.
Snow Job - The truth about the great overhyped glacier melt
June 5, 2006 - The total worldwide ice loss is equivalent to a sea-level rise of 0.05 mm
per year. “At that rate, it would take a full 20,000 years to rise by a meter.
See excerpts from Snow Job
.
.
Icebreakers can’t keep up - 5 Jul 06
Icebreakers are having trouble getting through unusual ice build-up in McMurdo Sound.
See Ice Breakers Can't Keep Up.
http://iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 03:05 PM
gmb92 gmb92 is offline
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Quote:
more evidence you would like to try and refute..?
Where's the evidence? I just see more claims not supported by a scientific reference. I was hoping to see you attempt to back up your previous claims before copying and pasting from another dubious website.

Now there's a funny website.

Quote:
Next week, next month, next year, it's not a question of if, only when.
One day you'll wake up - or you won't wake up, rather - buried beneath nine stories of snow.
This makes the Day After Tomorrow look like a cautious documentary!
__________________
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- President Barack Obama, 8/28/08

"To the average American who’s struggling, we’re in some other stratosphere. We’re the party of Big Business and Big Oil and the rich."

- Sen. Olympia Snowe (R)

Budget surplus inherited by Bush: $236 billion (CBO, 2000)

Budget deficit inherited by Obama: $1,667 billion (CBO projection, 3/2009)
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 03:07 PM
imperial imperial is offline
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ok....attack the websit, hide from the evidence it presents...

or perhaps youd like to help penny wong out? hahahaha. she certainly needs your version of the truth....but only if it can stand up to scruitiny...!!! hahahaha here, go help out!! lol http://joannenova.com.au/global-warm...ing-documents/

Last edited by imperial; 07-04-2009 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
....relies on exploiting an ever-decreasing finite fuel...
Do you have the slightest idea of the lie you're trying to peddle here? I doubt you do. Every earthly resource, while finite, can almost without exception be exploited without end. The variable is the price and associated tech ramp up. But for most everything the price goes down as we exploit these finite resources.

It's contrary to your nature, no doubt. But at least make the effort.
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Descartes' proof of existence, "I think therefore I am" will not work for a majority of voters in the last election.

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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Riordan Riordan is offline
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Why does the government need to step in? People are incapable of taking care of themselves?
The government should stay the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of our business. Hows that for a change?
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