Originally Posted by EiregoSod";p=&quot

Western Culture what's there to be jealous about?

Entertainment Tonight?

Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

...our benevolence. No other country on this planet does more.
How much does your country do for natural disasters?
How much of your personal income have you contributed to those devastated by war, famine or any other disaster?
If you find our nation to be a place where you don't want to live, GOOD! stay the hel* out!
Other than soccer, we pretty much beat you in every sport on earth, and we will soon take soccer.
So yeah, you have a great deal to be jealous of, because we are very proud to be Americans, and you or no one else will ever take that away.

Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot

My husband is so smart. Just the other day.....before I came across this article that I am linking here.....he told me that the reason these Islamic terrorists hate us has nothing to do with Iraq or even the Palestine/Israeli conflict. It has to do with their being "jealous" of western culture and the fact tht the world has passed them by. The professor who wrote this article evidently feels the same way as my husband does. It sound very much like what he was saying to me:

Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot

My husband is so smart. Just the other day.....before I came across this article that I am linking here.....he told me that the reason these Islamic terrorists hate us has nothing to do with Iraq or even the Palestine/Israeli conflict. It has to do with their being "jealous"

Originally Posted by EiregoSod";p=&quot

My, all this chest pounding. "Everyone, bow before America and be jealous! "

No country has it all.

Originally Posted by livefree";p=&quot

I guess you must have some deep need to stay in denial of the obvious that forces you to come up these funny little bits of pseudo-intellectual sophistry. What is it that you can't face about the fact that the Mideast Muslims have valid grievances concerning the past and present actions of the US/Brit/CIA/Military machine in their countries? Or are you really just that ignorant? The fact is that their motivations are far more complex than this simplistic "hate" and "jealousy" fantasy you hold on to in the face of all evidence. Here is a good summery of some of the good reasons that the people of the Mideast have to be angry with America and to want us to leave them alone. If the US/Britain hadn't been doing this stuff for all these years, we would never have experienced 9/11.


Mid-East Time-line

1918: Britain and France assumed direct control of the territories of Egypt, Persia (Iran), Iraq, Palestine, and Syria,in part to crush the revolutionary ferment that swept the region following the Russian Revolution of 1917. French and British arbitrarily carved up the vast territory inhabited by the Arab peoples to create artificial nation-states. These were created for colonial convenience and to break apart the Arab nation, making it easier to foist subservient, corrupt monarchies.

1921: Britain imposed a new monarch on Iraq - Faisal. The subsequent mass uproar was suppressed in brutal massacres in 1920-4. The brutality of British rule was captured in an infamous quote from Winston Churchill, who said "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes."

1920-28: U.S. pressures Britain, then the dominant Middle East power, into signing a "Red Line Agreement" providing that Middle Eastern oil will not be developed by any single power without the participation of the others. Standard Oil and Mobil obtain shares of the Iraq Petroleum Company.

1932: a limited "independence" was granted to Iraq, with Britain keeping its military bases and control of most industries. Winston Churchill explained that under this treaty Britain would remain "the owners or at any rate the controllers at the source of at least a proportion of the oil which we require."

1944: U.S. State Department memo refers to Middle Eastern oil as "a stupendous source of strategic power, and one of the greatest material prizes in world history." During U.S.-British negotiations over the control of Middle Eastern oil, President Roosevelt sketches out a map of the Middle East and tells the British Ambassador, "Persian oil is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it's ours." On August 8, 1944, the Anglo-American Petroleum Agreement is signed, splitting Middle Eastern oil between the U.S. and Britain.

Between 1948 and 1960: Western capital earns $12.8 billion in profits from the production, refining and sale of Middle Eastern oil, on fixed investments totaling $1.3 billion.

November 1947: The U.S. helps push through a UN resolution partitioning Palestine into a Zionist state and an Arab state, giving the Zionist authorities control of 54% of the land. At that time Jewish settlers were about 1/3 of the population.

May 14, 1948: War breaks out between newly proclaimed state of Israel, and Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Syria, who had moved troops into Palestine to oppose the partition of Palestine. Israeli attacks force some 800,000 Palestinians--two-thirds of the population--to flee into exile in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank. Israel seizes 77 percent of historic Palestine. The U.S. quickly recognizes Israel.

March 29, 1949: CIA backs a military coup overthrowing the elected government of Syria and establishes a military dictatorship under Colonel Za'im.

[b]1951: Iranian parliament nationalizes the British Anglo-Iranian oil company. This popular move was spearheaded by the reformer, Mossadegh, who was elected prime minister shortly after.

1953: Britain and the US organize an economic blockade of Iran. The CIA organizes a coup overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadeq government, placing the Shah in power. Shortly before the coup, the Communist Party calls a 100,000 strong demonstration to protest the US and the Shah. Nine hours of street fighting finally quells popular rebellion against the coup.

1954: Iranian oil re-privatized, with US and Britain in control. Popular opposition compels the Shah to rule through a reign of terror unrivaled in the region. US helps fund huge military and police build-up, and trains Savak, the notorious secret police. Amnesty International would write in 1976 that Iran had the "highest rate of death penalties in the world, no valid system of civilian courts and a history of torture which is beyond belief. No country in the world has a worse record in human rights than Iran."

March 9, 1957: Congress approves Eisenhower Doctrine, stating "the United States regards as vital to the national interest and world peace the preservation of the independence and integrity of the nations of the Middle East."

April 1957: After anti-government rioting breaks out in Jordan, U.S. rushes 6th fleet to the eastern Mediterranean and lands a battalion of Marines in Lebanon to "prepare for possible future intervention in Jordan." Later that year, the CIA begins making secret payments of millions a year to Jordan's King Hussein.

1957-58: Syria and Egypt take steps toward a merger, reflecting revolutionary yearning of the Arab masses to unite against Western imperialism. The US Sixth Fleet is dispatched, and huge arms shipments are delivered to US client regimes. Syria and Egypt claim to uncover "at least eight separate conspiracies to overthrow one or the other government, to assassinate Nasser, and/or prevent the merger of the two countries." Independent evidence detailing several of these failed plots subsequently emerges.

1958: Iraq and Lebanon: Two weeks after 1958 Egypt/Syria merger, the US establishes "Baghdad Pact," uniting monarchies and puppet regimes against threat of Nasserism and growing Soviet influence. Mass rioting erupts throughout the region. Iraqi troops are ordered into Jordan to put down unrest. Under popular pressure, the army mutinies and instead marches on the royal palace. The hated King, Crown Prince, and Prime Minister are lynched.

The next day, US Marines land in Lebanon and British troops are dispatched to Jordan. A virtual civil war erupts as 14,000 US troops enter Lebanon at the invitation of the unpopular, CIA-backed government of Chamoun. Lebanese forces manage to put down the rebellion after months of urban clashes. President Eisenhower would later write: "This somber turn of events could, without a vigorous response on our part, result in the complete elimination of Western influence in the Middle East."

1963: Right wing of Iraq's Ba'ath party leads successful coup with US support, after unsuccessful US assassination attempt against Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim. The CIA provides Ba'ath party with names of Iraqi communists to murder, and the CP is ruthlessly slaughtered.

1968: A counter-coup, in which Saddam Hussein participates, leads to nationalization of Iraqi oil in 1972.

1973-75: To destabilize Iraq during a border dispute with Iran, US supports Kurdish rebels with $16 million in arms, promising to back them in their struggle for autonomy. When Iran and Iraq reach an agreement in 1975 and seal off their border, Iraq proceeds to violently suppress the Kurdish rebellion. US ends support for Kurds and denies them refuge. Henry Kissinger, architect of the ploy, explained, "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

1973, 1978: A nationalist coup in 1973 brings down the Afghan monarchy. A 1978 coup puts the Stalinist Peoples Democratic Party in power. Afraid of growing Afghan ties to the Soviet Union, US begins covert funding for the reactionary Islamic Fundamentalist rebels. Mujahideen "Freedom Fighters" (according to President Ronald Reagan), are lead by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, whose "followers first gained attention by throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil." Six months later, the Soviet Union sends in troops to prop-up the Afghan government.

1978: As the Iranian revolution begins against the hated Shah, the U.S. continues to support him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully against the masses. In August 1978, some 400 Iranians are burned to death in the Rex Theater in Abadan after police chain and lock the exit doors. On September 8, 10,000 anti-Shah demonstrators are massacred at Teheran's Jaleh Square.

1979: The U.S. tries, without success, to organize a military coup to save the Shah. In January, the Shah is forced to flee and the reactionary Shi-ite Islamists led by Ayatollah Khomeini take power in February.

1979-84: U.S. supports paramilitary forces to undermine the government of South Yemen, which was allied with the Soviet Union.

1979-92: US gives over $3 billion in arms and aid to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. CIA sets up training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan - some of the same "terrorist training camps" the US will bomb in 2001. Osama bin Laden and many other of today's Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist leaders are direct recipients of US aid and training. By 1992, more than a million Afghan people will have died, three million disabled, and five million made refugees, in total about half the population.

September 22, 1980: Iraq invades Iran with tacit U.S. support, starting a bloody eight-year war. The U.S. supports both sides in the war providing arms to Iran and money, intelligence, and political support to Iraq in order to prolong the war and weaken both sides, while trying to draw both countries into the U.S. orbit. US opposes UN resolution condemning Iraq's invasion, takes Iraq off its list of nations supporting terrorism, and allows US arms transfers to Saddam Hussein. US urges Israel to arm Iran, and in 1985 the US secretly provides arms to Iran directly.

Summer 1980: As the Carter administration tries to bully Iran into surrendering the U.S. hostages, supporters of presidential candidate Ronald Reagan cut a secret deal with the Islamic Republic: promising that the Reagan administration will allow Israel to ship arms to Iran if Iran continues to hold the hostages during the coming presidential campaign to cripple Carter's campaign for re-election.

1982-83: Heavily funded, armed, and backed by the US, Israel invades Lebanon. Over 17,000 civilians are massacred. US blocks several UN resolutions calling for an Israeli withdrawal. In 1983, US troops also land in Lebanon to intervene in the civil war.

1984: Iraq uses chemical weapons on Iran; US subsequently restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. A US Defense Intelligence Agency official involved in aiding Iraq later commented that the Pentagon "wasn't so horrified by Iraq's use of gas. It was just another way of killing people."

1987: As Iran gets the upper hand in war with Iraq, the US moves to decisively back Iraq. A massive US armada in Persian Gulf ensures arms deliveries to Iraq. When a US gunship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290 passengers, Vice President Bush says, "I will never apologize for America. I don't care what the facts are."

1985-90: The US showers Iraq with billions in arms, loans, and aid. After Saddam Hussein uses chemical weapons to murder thousands of the Kurdish opposition in Iraq, the Bush administration continues to license the sale of chemical weapons, and blocks UN initiatives to curb their use.

1988: The Iraqi regime launches mass poison-gas attacks on Kurds, killing thousands and bulldozing many villages. The U.S. responds by increasing its support for the Iraqi regime.

July 1988: A cease-fire ends the Iran-Iraq war with neither side victorious. Over 1 million Iranians and Iraqis are killed during the 8-year war.

1989: The last Soviet troops leave Afghanistan. The war, fueled by U.S.-Soviet rivalry, has torn Afghanistan apart, killing more than one million Afghans and forcing one-third of the population to flee into refugee camps. More than 15,000 Soviet soldiers die in the war.

July 1990: April Glaspie, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, meets with Saddam Hussein, who threatens military action against Kuwait for overproducing its oil quota, slant drilling for oil in Iraqi territory, and encroaching on Iraqi territory--seriously harming war weakened Iraq. Glaspie replies, "We have no opinion on the Arab- Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

August 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait. The U.S. seizes the moment to assert its hegemony in the post-Soviet world and strengthen its grip on the Persian Gulf: the U.S. condemns Iraq, rejects a diplomatic settlement, imposes sanctions, and prepares for an all-out military assault on Iraq.

Spring 1991: Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north rise up against Hussein's regime in Iraq. The U.S., after encouraging these uprisings during the war, now fears turmoil and instability in the region and refuses to support the rebels. The U.S. denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allows Iraqi helicopters to attack them.

1990-now: Severe economic sanctions imposed on Iraq by the UN. By UN estimates, the sanctions have cost over a million lives, half of them children. About 5,000 children die each month, mostly from malnutrition and treatable diseases. From the most economically advanced country in the region before the US attack, Iraq today is among the most destitute.

1998: Renewed US and British bombing campaign - called Operation Desert Fox - against Iraq after it exposes US spies among UN weapons inspectors (later admitted by US officials). The UN pulls out inspectors before bombings, which continue on average every other day.

2001: Following the September 11th terrorist attacks, the US launches a war on Afghanistan. US led UN occupation of the country installs Karzai regime. Karzai had had previous dealings with oil companies and oil pipeline deal.

2003: President Bush launches an unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq, resulting in a brutal American and British occupation and control of the country.