Now that we have this kind of success and numbers in Iraq....

1. The number of violent deaths in Iraq has fallen to the lowest levels since February 2006, according to new reports from the Iraqi government and the U.S. Department of Defense.

2. The number of Iraqi civilians killed in September dropped to 884, less than half of the August count. That makes September the least violent month in Iraq since the bombing of the Golden Mosque, a sacred Shiite religious site, in February 2006 that set off waves of sectarian violence across the country.

3. Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno, the No. 2 commander of U.S.-led forces in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad in late September that there has been a 50-percent drop in violence in Baghdad since January "and the trend continues to be down."

4. September also saw the fewest U.S. military casualties in Iraq since July 2006. According to USA Today, 63 soldiers were killed in September, 41 in combat, down from 84 in August (although AFP reports 71 deaths).

5. U.S. commanders attribute the decline in violence to the surge strategy, which has seen an influx of 30,000 U.S. troops into Iraq since February (although most were not in place until May). They claim that more of Baghdad's neighborhoods are now free of enemy activity and that the military has been successful in targeting al-Qaida in Iraq and preventing large-scale terrorist attacks.

"We've done a very good job on al-Qaida," said Brig. Gen. John Campbell, an assistant commander for the U.S. division in Baghdad. "I think we've got them on the run."


http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/2007/10/post_23.php

This is not to say, of course, that all is perfectly fine there. The poltiical reconciliation is still not resolved in total....but even that part enjoys some successes as well.

So....I guess this good news is causing the Iraq war protesters to put it in low gear. They would NEVER admit to the successes.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071027/..._protests_dc_2

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

Yep, it would be nice to see all those numbers decline and never go up again. Success to protestors is bringing the troops home permanently I believe, and a body count is above 1 is a loss. Of course how can you ever claim a success when even 1 US troop dies? And you can make any kind of claim you chose for mission accomplished and winning in Iraq. We need to redefine what win means, as it is all relevant and just a state a mind.

If you want to claim that winning is having roses thrown at the soldiers feet, I suggest you call the florist and we can call it a win in Iraq and bring the troops home.

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One Tin Soldier Walked Away....................

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...tionkill-1.jpg

I dunno.... objectively, JP may be right on this one. Yes?

I mean, it remains to be seen, yes?

I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that "the surge has worked", but the signs right now is that it is accomplishing the desired effect.

And I mean - you know, this may have been one of those times when Bushie was forced to pay careful attention to the man he put in charge of this particular operation - 'cause Petraeus was "the man", remember? He was the only one, who a) though he could get the job done, and b) actually wanted it - I remember that 'cause I was tracking who Bushie was asking about that, and Petraeus' name was the only one that everyone said could get the job done - it's like, "if he can't do it, then no one can".

I mean that's how close Bushie came, to blowing this thing entirely.

And I mean, we still don't know, right? Either way, it's still a god-awful mess, but at least if the surge works maybe some of our war-weary boys will finally get to come back home to their families.

Well, the prediction around this one, was that AQ would lay low for a while, and then try to come back in force once the US started withdrawing - so, that part we still don't know about, right?

And it's true a lot has happened since then - then "Anbar surprise" and all that - but it's also true that the Shi'a are far from subdued, and now we have the additional problem of the Turks at war with the Kurds in the north (they actually did some cross-border bombing today, I heard) -

So I'm certainly not "optimistic" about any of this, but I do plan to send General Petraeus a personal note of thanks if he manages to pull this thing off, 'cause dude - he'll have saved me from my own freakin' President.

How d'ya like them apples?

Well we could give JP a test to really see what his perspective on what is a win really means.


Tell us JP, would you consider the battle at the Alamo a win?

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One Tin Soldier Walked Away....................

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...tionkill-1.jpg

Aw come now, play nice... (snicker)...

Nah, seriously, look - I don't want the conservatives to be "nasty", but I also don't like you bad-mouthing JP either (I mean, that's "my" job, right - just kidding, both of you, I'm just teasing) -

Yeah, you know, we've tried that like "a thousand times" on this forum - I think, over the years, there's probably a couple of people who've come "pretty close" to explaining that one - I mean, Duh2 took a crack at it once, and he did pretty well - most people fail, though.

I mean, at the end of the day, you either buy into the Bush vision or you don't, right?

If you do, you're probably focused on the "implementation", and therefore in your eyes, the surge is probably "working".

If you don't, you're probably focused on the "policy', and in that case it probably doesn't "much" matter whether the surge "works" or not.

I understand both perspectives, don't you? I mean, "I" happen "not" to buy into Bushie's pipe dream, but others seem to place more faith in it than I do - and we've been over the reasons for that, and so on and etc....

But I mean, yeah, feel free - knock yourself out. If you can get a meaningful answer out of these guys, you're a better man than I.

But you gotta ask nice, right? I mean, you know, JP might not be multi-lingual, so we might have to do a quickie "translation" from liberal-speak into Bush-speak, or something like that.....

(why am I thinking about that scene from the movie Airplane, when the old lady leans up to the guys in front that are having trouble talking to each other 'cause one of 'em's black and the other's white, so this old lady says, "excuse me, I speak jive, can I be of assistance?" )

So yeah, don't be askin' about the Alamo, that would register as something else entirely, know what I mean?

ABSOLUTELY! Just read some Texas history. Those brave men who fought and died at the Alamo gave Sam Houston the extra needed time to prepare for and win the Battle at San Jacinto and thus established Texas as a free republic and opened the way for the United States to extend its boundaries to the Rio Grande on the southwest and to the Pacific on the west. Few military engagements in history have been more decisive or of more far-reaching ultimate influence than the battle of San Jacinto.

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

What'd I tell you? Ask a stupid question....

You want to know why I think the surge is working.

Say you are an Iraqi, and in 2006 the war had been going on for several years aleady and the violence in Iraq suddenly increases dramatically. Things aren't looking too good. Everyday news of the American government talking of pulling out reaches Iraqis.

What is the U.S. response? We send in more troops. We start establishing small local governments, and work to convince tribal leaders we are going to go the distance and they should work with us.

Guess what? It works. The Iraqi people more or less band together against a common enemy and use the U.S. as a resource to help ensure the stability of their country.

I think a lot can be said about how the political climate here can effect the war in Iraq. I really think if anything costs the Democrats the election, it will be the damage they caused our efforts in Iraq.

I see, so Santa Anna was stalled at the Alamo, lost a lot of troops and was battle weary by the time he reached San Jacinto. Interesting, I really should do some reading on the subject. American text books always make it appear that we lost all our battles, or most of them. Nothing like a lil history to (*)(*)(*)(*) off a few Mexicans.

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One Tin Soldier Walked Away....................

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...tionkill-1.jpg

And how would you rate the damage caused by the Republicans to their election efforts ever since they launched the invasion of Iraq back in 2003?