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Old 11-04-2007, 03:08 AM
dano dano is offline
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Default Freedom and Liberty in the Middle East

We are fighting perhaps one of the most difficult, complex and long running wars in human history. President Bush is trying something no one has ever tried before, giving the Middle East a taste of true freedom and liberty. This is far more powerful, damaging and world changing than any military effort anyone could do in that part of the world.
He is trying to affect the hearts and souls of people who do not know what freedom is.
I believe that is why al-Queda, the Taliban and Hezzbola are so worried about it. They know they cannot beat us militarily and that freedom in Iraq and the Middle East is the real threat to them.
I think President Bush is brilliant, courageous and history will bear this out in the years to come. Freedom and liberty for all!
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Old 11-15-2007, 03:23 PM
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Default I agree, but..

It's not exactly that the people of the Middle East have never known what freedom and democracy are like. The main reason that region is so screwed up is because during the Cold War, The Soviets spent most of their time arming the craziest bastards they could find to start and assist in Communist revolutions in those countries, and the U.S. reaction was to arm the craziest bastards they could find to make life hell for the Soviets.

Imagine if you will, that another nation comes to America and gives everybody in the "I hate America" fringe rocket launchers and AK's, and promises to help them rid the US of their oppressive right wing dictatorship. After that, another country comes to America, offering to help quell this revolution, then proceeds by similarly arming the KKK, and every racist hilljack backwoods inbred redneck here with an M-16 and a .50 calibar sniper rifle (assuming they didn't already have them). The two sides then send very little other than more ammo, military training, and their heartfelt thanks for fighting for the the cause of justice and peace.

This may give perspective as to why the Middle East is suspicious of any "help" we try to offer them. We've really screwed up that region. While we were mostly reacting to Soviet aggression, and it's definitely better that our crazy people are in charge, instead of their crazy people, we still bear some copability for their condition. We're going to have to work hard to show the people there that we're there for the right reasons before they start trusting us.

That said, I completely agree with you. We're finally fighting in the Middle east for all the right reasons! The Iraqis are starting to realize this, and we're turning the corner there. I hope our liberal friends, both here and abroad, will eventually come to realize this, and stop trying to distort reasoned and honorable anti-war sentiment to try to torpedo the just and righteous cause of returning Iraq to the Iraqis, so that they can get their votes.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:46 PM
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Default I disagree for the most part

Although it's an honorable cause and everything, why is it our job to do. Our government was setup to protect our liberties, not foreign citizens. Not only do I not believe we can bring freedom to any country by force, I also don't think our federal government has any constitutional authority to do so. It authorizes the government to provide for the common defense, in no way is Iraq critical to our defense.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:43 AM
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Default I agree

Because the people( sometimes hard to call them that)in the Middle East are uncapable of letting the citzens decide. The Middle East Islamic world is full of Power Hungry Mongrels and sometimes they need a kickstart to freedom!

President Bush is a visionary in the Middle East.The U.N says its not our war. It will be our war when that Nueclear missle lands in Brooklyn. We dont want this war on our homefront. Trust me...
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:31 PM
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Default what right have we?

Iraq needs to be left alone. as does the rest of the middle east. What right did we have to enter the country?

UTSAChris: you said that we need to return Iraq to the Iraqis, but the Iraqis had it before, they had a government (not a good one mind you but it was still an iraqi government) Just because you dont like their government doesn't invalidate it.

Diamondback: First, why is it so hard to call them people? they are the exact same collection of blood and guts that you are. Also, What nuclear missile? they disarmed their weapons at our request. When we went into Iraq we were not able to find a single WOMD. Until you can show me something legitimate that says they were found, Be silent.

To conclude: any government forced on a people is doomed to fail. Look at Pre WWII germany if you need an example.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:49 PM
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Would it not be ironically appropriate, if George Washington's farewell address plays a role in the ultimate demise of America?

Anyway, the war is constitutionally upsetting. Bush, Congress, and America were swept on the patriotic wind of post 9/11. Leave out the affairs of state and that is why we have war, it was supported by the people.

Who are the terrorists here? The few radicals disturbing global economies or the army of the most powerful country in the known world occupying a state under martial law?

We have not created a nation of democracy, but one of terrorism and violence. We have successfully instituted ourselves as a scapegoat for all these people's comprehensive miseries. Children in Iraq, four, five, six years of age and older, have only known American occupation. Do not all nations have the same unalienable rights? All Men, not only citizens of one country? One could argue radicals taking up arms against Americans is more civilized than our own theories of war. After all, what would you do? You would die for liberty and independence, is what you would do. This war was over four years ago, and the youth of a nation in a decade will have such a strong hatred for America and everything it represents, it will be etched into their memory, it will grow in their blood. America will be in the shadows, able to fight and win a war, but unable to cope with the decadence of their foreign enemies.

Finish the petty war, let Iraq have their government and propaganda as they chose, or force. Let them come with bombs and troops toward American property, then and only then will we have grievance enough to subdue them.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
Finish the petty war, let Iraq have their government and propaganda as they chose, or force. Let them come with bombs and troops toward American property, then and only then will we have grievance enough to subdue them.
Then and only then will you understand after losing your spouse or loved ones why we wanted to keep it in Iraq and else where, rather then here.

Sorry, I would rather fight the enemies of this nation elsewhere in their backyard then here.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:59 PM
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Then and only then will you understand after losing your spouse or loved ones why we wanted to keep it in Iraq and else where, rather then here.

Sorry, I would rather fight the enemies of this nation elsewhere in their backyard then here.
I don't recall Saddam Hussein threatening an attack on the US.

Just a little side note, they weren't our enemies before we... began fighting them in their backyards. Does this war on terror really make us safer?
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dano View Post
President Bush is trying something no one has ever tried before, giving the Middle East a taste of true freedom and liberty.


I wonder what kind of drugs you are taking^^ Your Orwellian "logic" made me remember a famous quote from the Vietnam war, "we had to destroy the village in order to save it!"
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyordeath View Post
Although it's an honorable cause and everything, why is it our job to do. Our government was setup to protect our liberties, not foreign citizens. Not only do I not believe we can bring freedom to any country by force, I also don't think our federal government has any constitutional authority to do so. It authorizes the government to provide for the common defense, in no way is Iraq critical to our defense.
You say our constitution was set up so protect our liberties not foriagn citizens, that is actually a common mistake.
"...all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights among these, life, liberty, and the pursuit of property"
ALL, not just americans.

Also the war is not against iraq, it is With iraq. It isnt a pretty fact to accept but peace and liberty can be achieved through war. Look at america itself we fought britian to secure our inalienable rights. Of course we had an advantage over iraq's situation, that being our fouding fathers knew what freedom was and knew it was worth death. Iraqis dont know of freedom because they have always lived under a tyranical dictatorship, one which could not properly be called a government. You cant miss what you never had is a good way to sum up what im saying.

The war is also to eliminate terrorism on a global scale. Somthing which is long overdue and im sure you can agree that is somthing that does directly effect us. Islamic Terrorist have clearly stated that they want all infidels to islam dead because that is what they truly believe will please God. although it is not a critical thing to us rite now, it will be someday. and for that i submit to you this quote "...and when they came for me there was no one left to fight..."
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