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Old 11-18-2007, 07:54 AM
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Default Hillary's Musharraf

Hillary's Musharraf

by Greg Palast

November 16, 2007

He was the other man in Hillary's life. But it's over now. Or is it?

You've seen all those creepy photos of George Bush rubbing up against Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf, the two of them grinning and giggling like they're going to the senior prom. So it's hard to remember that it was Hillary and Bill who brought Pervez to the dance in the first place.

How that happened, I'll tell you in a moment.

But first, let's get our facts straight about the man in the moustache. Musharraf, according to George Bush, The New York Times, NPR and the rest of press puppies is, "our ally in the War on Terror." That's like calling Carmine Gambino, "Our ally in the War on Crime."

Musharraf's the guy who helped the Taliban take power in Afghanistan in 1996. And, through his ISI, Pakistan's own KGB, he is still giving the Taliban secret protection.

And this is the same Musharraf who let Khalid Sheik Muhammed, Osama's operations chief for the September 11 attack, hang out in Quetta, Pakistan, in the open, until Khalid embarrassed his host by giving a boastful interview to Al Jazeera television from his Pakistan hang-out.

And this is the same Musharraf who permitted his nation's own Dr. Strangelove, A.Q. Khan, to sell nuclear do-it-yourself bomb kits to Libya and North Korea. When the story off the flea-market in fissionable materials was exposed, Musharraf (and Bush) both proclaimed their shock - shock! - over the bomb sales. Musharraf didn't know? Sure. Those tons of lethal hardware must have been shipped by flying pig.

But, unlike Saddam and Osama, creations of Ronald Reagan's and George Bush Sr.'s Frankenstein factories, Musharraf was a Clinton special.

And it all began with an unpaid electricity bill. In 1998, Pakistan wouldn't pay up millions, and they owed billions, to British and American electricity companies. And for good reason: the contracts called for paying insanely high prices. It smelled of payola - and ultimately, the government of Pakistan filed charges against power combine executives and canceled the contracts. That's the rule under international law: companies can't collect on contracts they obtained by pay-offs.

But these weren't just any companies. One was a Tony Blair favorite, Britain's National Power. The other was Entergy International, a sudden big-time player in the international power market based out of, oddly, Little Rock, Arkansas. Despite the Clinton Administration's claim to fight foreign corruption, this was an exception. Clinton and Blair voted to cut off Pakistan's funding from the IMF. Pay-up the power pirates, they told Pakistan, or starve.

Rest of Article Here
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2007, 10:37 AM
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Default Perfect example!

This is a perfect example of why I'm leaning toward Obama right now. His lack of experience in politics means that he's probably never been involved in putting a dictator in power. It's not that I'm sure he wouldn't, if he had the opportunity -- he is a politician, after all. I'm just fairly sure he hasn't been given the opportunity yet.

Figuring out which politician to vote for is kind of like selecting the bullets at your own firing squad, sometimes.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:35 AM
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Default Not unless...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daybreaker";p=&quot View Post
This is a perfect example of why I'm leaning toward Obama right now. His lack of experience in politics means that he's probably never been involved in putting a dictator in power. It's not that I'm sure he wouldn't, if he had the opportunity -- he is a politician, after all. I'm just fairly sure he hasn't been given the opportunity yet.

Figuring out which politician to vote for is kind of like selecting the bullets at your own firing squad, sometimes.
Not unless that politician has over 2 decades of experience voting for positions that match his words - and their is one man in the race with that kind of record - Ron Paul. He has spelled out his entire foreign policy in a new book. I suggest you forget the Democrat Primary and vote for Ron Paul in the Republican Primary. He will definitely stop sending money to prop up dictators.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:54 AM
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Default ?

Truth----Ron Paul has some sound ideas. But he's too far "out there" on a lot of important issues. Like our security and terrorism. He thinks everything that's happened---like 9/11---- is the fault of the U.S. but I think he misses the point entirely. Has he not ever read any of bin Laden's rants? It's much more about our lifestyle and the fact we are NOT of the Islamic faith than anything else. So, I contend that even if we were isolationists, these people would have eventually come after us. And just as there are those who condemn us for "intervening" in world affairs, there would be just as many.....probably much more.....who would condemn us for NOT intervening or acting.

SO....we do what we believe is in our best interest at the time.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Truth----Ron Paul has some sound ideas. But he's too far "out there" on a lot of important issues. Like our security and terrorism. He thinks everything that's happened---like 9/11---- is the fault of the U.S. but I think he misses the point entirely. Has he not ever read any of bin Laden's rants? It's much more about our lifestyle and the fact we are NOT of the Islamic faith than anything else. So, I contend that even if we were isolationists, these people would have eventually come after us. And just as there are those who condemn us for "intervening" in world affairs, there would be just as many.....probably much more.....who would condemn us for NOT intervening or acting.

SO....we do what we believe is in our best interest at the time.
No matter what the Republicans do, it will always be wrong. They're (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they do, and (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if they don't. And the Dems will always find a way to rewrite history so they can slam the Repubs.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:19 PM
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Default Ron Paul's foreign policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Truth----Ron Paul has some sound ideas. But he's too far "out there" on a lot of important issues. Like our security and terrorism. He thinks everything that's happened---like 9/11---- is the fault of the U.S. but I think he misses the point entirely. Has he not ever read any of bin Laden's rants? It's much more about our lifestyle and the fact we are NOT of the Islamic faith than anything else. So, I contend that even if we were isolationists, these people would have eventually come after us. And just as there are those who condemn us for "intervening" in world affairs, there would be just as many.....probably much more.....who would condemn us for NOT intervening or acting.

SO....we do what we believe is in our best interest at the time.
Ron Paul is not saying, and never has said, that we shouldn't have a strong military. We should have a strong national defense. What Paul and people like myself are saying is that the military should only be used defensively and our foreign policy should be noninterventionism, the original U.S. foreign policy:

"The United States goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is a well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. If the United States took up all foreign affairs, it would become entangled in all the wars of interest and intrigue, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own soul." -President John Quincy Adams

The threats and dangers that most Neocons fantasize about are all the result of the actions of the U.S. overseas.

Al qaeda declared jihad because:
(1) the U.S. supplies weapons to and gives military aid to the Zionists in Israel
(2) the U.S. keeps military bases on ground in Saudi Arabia that they consider sacred
(3) and that the sanctions in Iraq (and now the occupation) are hurting the Iraqi people

Keep on doing these things, and you'll make yourself a terrorist target. Get out of their territory and stay out of their business, and they'll forget about you and would probably be open to a dialog.

They don't hate us for our "wealth" and "freedom." That's just sheer propaganda. THAT'S what you have to be gullible to believe at this point (not that I'm saying you do believe Bush's "argument" about that point - just that the general public believes it).

But there is no true threat. There is no true threat because we are the cause of much of the bad blood - the CIA's overthrow of a democratically elected leader in Iran in the fifties was a spark to much of this. The CIA's own declassified documents, which you can see in the documentary "Why We Fight" specifically stated that the U.S. should expect "blowback" from that action. "Blowback" meaning violent, life-threatening actions. Obviously the CIA feared that the Arabs would think retaliatory action was justified. The CIA has created many enemies for us:

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle4068.htm

Certainly, our initiation of force in the region on the behalf of British Petroleum was not justified. Certainly our initiation of force against any nation that isn't directly attacking us or declaring war against us isn't justified. Certainly, America has committed many atrocities which were not justified. They're all detailed here:

Why do they hate us?

The answer is here.

As far as protecting our "rights" and "freedom" go, Bush has done nothing but restrict our rights and slowly take away more of our freedoms.

There's a reason the Founding Fathers warned us about domestic enemies of the Constitution - and Bush is definitely a domestic enemy of the original intent of the Constitution:

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison

"Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debt and taxes and armies are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people...
[There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and....degeneracy of manners and morals....No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -- James Madison

...Continual warfare as in the neverending "war on terror"... hello, anybody awake out there in America?

Now, why I say an invasion of the U.S. won't happen if we declare neutrality:

First, if we remove the cause of the fatwa against the U.S., the terrorists will have no reason to invade our territory if we're not in their territory and not interfering in their region. So there should be no reason for them to waste time attacking a neutral people. After all, they're not making a point to attack anyone in Switzerland, Sweden or New Zealand, now are they?

Secondly, even if they did try to invade and occupy us after we left, they would fail miserably. For one thing, they couldn't afford it. We're practically the richest country in the world, yet look what it's costing us to invade and occupy the tiny country of Iraq - and we're FAILING. And add to this that private Americans are far more heavily armed that Iraqis were. Our insurgency would be devastating to any invader. They can certainly try to attack me, but I'm well-trained in the use of firearms, so I doubt they'll get close enough to try.

And last but not least, no nation state wants a war with us. Why? The simple reason is that we have enough nuclear weapons to nuke every square inch of every country on earth. We are not helpless and we are not defenseless. No one could ever successfully invade and occupy the U.S. No other country's economy could stand the strain, let alone the bombardment that would follow.
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"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hilter did in Germany was 'legal'" - Martin Luther King Jr., from a Birmingham jail, April 16, 1963.
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:25 PM
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Default Bin Laden

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Has he not ever read any of bin Laden's rants? It's much more about our lifestyle and the fact we are NOT of the Islamic faith than anything else.
I disagree. The points listed in my previous post above were made specifically by Bin Laden, and he reasserted those points in his offer of truce. Sure, he's an Islamic fundamentalist and dislikes other religions, but he simply doesn't have the means or the followers to invade and occupy a nation and convert its citizens. It's crazy to think that's even remotely possible. If we left the region, the Sunnis and Shiites would begin to fight among themselves, and Bin Laden would quickly become involved in that conflict.

Also, one should note that the U.S. made Bin Laden into the threat he is today.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:53 PM
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Default Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer";p=&quot View Post

Now, why I say an invasion of the U.S. won't happen if we declare neutrality:

First, if we remove the cause of the fatwa against the U.S., the terrorists will have no reason to invade our territory if we're not in their territory and not interfering in their region. So there should be no reason for them to waste time attacking a neutral people. After all, they're not making a point to attack anyone in Switzerland, Sweden or New Zealand, now are they?

Secondly, even if they did try to invade and occupy us after we left, they would fail miserably. For one thing, they couldn't afford it. We're practically the richest country in the world, yet look what it's costing us to invade and occupy the tiny country of Iraq - and we're FAILING. And add to this that private Americans are far more heavily armed that Iraqis were. Our insurgency would be devastating to any invader. They can certainly try to attack me, but I'm well-trained in the use of firearms, so I doubt they'll get close enough to try.

And last but not least, no nation state wants a war with us. Why? The simple reason is that we have enough nuclear weapons to nuke every square inch of every country on earth. We are not helpless and we are not defenseless. No one could ever successfully invade and occupy the U.S. No other country's economy could stand the strain, let alone the bombardment that would follow.
JP5, are you going to address these issues?
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"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hilter did in Germany was 'legal'" - Martin Luther King Jr., from a Birmingham jail, April 16, 1963.
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