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Old 05-29-2008, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunecat View Post
If anything this thread subject disproves what you are saying there!

If it were the US demanding everyone else get rid of cluster bombs except itself then your comment would have some merit - instead you have let youself down badly with your logic.
No I didn't. Typically, when the world community wants to get rid of certain munitions, the US usually says hell no. It doesn't like being told what to do. Then the US turns around and tells individual countries that they can't possess nukes or other WMD's. Such hypocrisy when the US continues to possess those very same weapons.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
111 nations have agreed to ban cluster bombs. Guess who did not sign? The US, Russia, China, Israel, India, and Pakistan. Guess what these nations have in common? They are the largest manufacturers of these weapons.

Why should we ban cluster bombs? Because they do NOT work. Up to 40% of the bomblets do not explode, which means that, sometime down the road, children are always killed by the pretty, shiny new toys they see and try to pick up.

These weapons ought to be made illegal, and the US needs to assert the leadership it used to show in the world, once upon a time, and get a real agreement hammered out.

Article is here.
There's a lot of different types of cluster bombs.

Incendiary, Anti-personnel, Anti-tank, Anti-runway, Mine-laying
Chemical weapons, Anti-electrical, Leaflet dispensing

You are referring to UXO rates. UXO is Unexploded ordnance or "duds". These turn into what are basically land mines and can cause civilian deaths and injuries. Typically this is in the 14% range depending on the bomblet. I have no idea where you arrive at the 40% rate of UXO.
I challenge that.
The U.S. is working on ordnance with a less than 1% UXO rate. The British are developing a cluster bomb with self-destruct mechanisms.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 05-29-2008 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:45 AM
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I think the real hypocrites are the ones who can only find it in their heart to criticise the US for doing what each of the other major powers are also doing.
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:49 AM
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I don't care what the other powers are doing because I don't live there.

I don't have a problem with the US keeping a huge arsenal of WMD's, just like I don't care if other countries do likewise. My problem is when the US starts telling other countries which weapons they can and can't have. Who the hell died and made the US God of this world?
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
I don't care what the other powers are doing because I don't live there.

I don't have a problem with the US keeping a huge arsenal of WMD's, just like I don't care if other countries do likewise. My problem is when the US starts telling other countries which weapons they can and can't have. Who the hell died and made the US God of this world?
A CBU aka Cluster bomb is not a WMD.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 05-29-2008 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
111 nations have agreed to ban cluster bombs. Guess who did not sign? The US, Russia, China, Israel, India, and Pakistan. Guess what these nations have in common? They are the largest manufacturers of these weapons.

Why should we ban cluster bombs? Because they do NOT work. Up to 40% of the bomblets do not explode, which means that, sometime down the road, children are always killed by the pretty, shiny new toys they see and try to pick up.

These weapons ought to be made illegal, and the US needs to assert the leadership it used to show in the world, once upon a time, and get a real agreement hammered out.

Article is here.
And which of these nations has actually used cluster bombs recently in civilian areas???/

When Israel left Lebanon defeated in the recent attacks, it decided to spray a canopy of cluster bombs in civilian areas with single fuse detonators.

This act goes against all rules of engagement a far as military conflicts are concerned.

And Israel has been trying to defend the action ever since - saying that its part of their self defense program

Imagine Hezbollah used cluster bombs in Israeli civilian areas during that conflict? WE WOULD STILL BE TALKING ABOUT THIS WAR CRIME.

How little we learn from history hey.

The small list of nations refusing to sign this international ban on cluster bombs shouldnt surprise anyone.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
A CBU aka Cluster bomb is not a WMD.
What about a hydrogen bomb? Or missles that are tipped with depleted uranium?

I bet you would have redefined that strict definition of what a WMD isnt, if the desperate US military FOUND CLUSTER BOMBS IN IRAQ.

Why would the world even allow the USA into a debate about what constitutes a Weapon of Mass destruction.

All weapons owned and used by the USA are blessed by GOD arent they Herkdriver?:shamrock :
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
A CBU aka Cluster bomb is not a WMD.
I don't care if we have cluster bombs either.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Foolosophy View Post
What about a hydrogen bomb? Or missles that are tipped with depleted uranium?

I bet you would have redefined that strict definition of what a WMD isnt, if the desperate US military FOUND CLUSTER BOMBS IN IRAQ.

Why would the world even allow the USA into a debate about what constitutes a Weapon of Mass destruction.

All weapons owned and used by the USA are blessed by GOD arent they Herkdriver?:shamrock :
You can blame the Soviets for the escalation in the Nuclear arsenal.

We just tried to keep up.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:06 AM
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Ya lets get rid of all of our other munitions and just use scaled down nuclear warheads instead.

My true wish is that we didn't have a need for things like this, but in a world where people want you dead, your best bet is to carry the biggest stick.
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