Except, Jimmys daddy is a Republican or a lawyer or a Liberal (Australian Conservative), who can't be bothered using his education to get a real job, he would rather sell pot or what ever drug his thing is, and his daddy and every right wing nut is going to fight for the highest price that he can get, in the delusion that the cops are going to;

A catch him
and
B Know how to convict him in court.

Jimmy doesn't attend pro pot rallies, he rallies against them!
The Political Right either hasn't figured this out, or enjoys mopping up the lupenproletariat (poor white trash) who are to stoned and depressed to connect the dots.

And yes, dope is addictive, and are you seriously suggesting that kids don't buy alcohole because they are under age?

The grass movement where I am from is a response to the violence and family breakdowns from alcohole. And lack of employment and education opportuinities, always will be.

I have moved on, made my own mistakes paid the price, and am trying to deal with the rest of my life.

When you hear the right message from people you trust and respect, you make good decisions, Alcohole, Tobacco, Drugs, Uranium are all a semiotic dance of successes and failures, fights and reasons to live and die for. They all lean to the left then to the right, to keep everything confusing.

Alcohole has killed my friends, while drink driving, not happy with who they were, trying to prove somthing? I don't know. I have another freind, who got off speed (anphetamines) while dealing with childhood sexual abuse. Her children were her reason.

I have another friend, he has borrowed money from me, he has worked and studyed since leaving school, Gambling, Alcohole, Dope, and beleiveing that if you work hard you will succeed, all combined to keep him on the poverty line. This is in Australia where we look after each other, with the government helping us when no one else can.

It is a big song and dance, but when we speak our peice, quietly, but loud enough to be heard by the listener, we each succeed a little. (disiderata)

It is the individuals choice though. The state should not be involved, it is hypocritical. If you outlaw Alcohole and Tobacco, then you have ground to stand on, otherwise, you don't have any respect to start with.

Boy, you sure do curse a lot. LOL

It looks like several street terms for the subject of this forum are classed as obscenities!

Good thing I guess, drugs are bad. They can be used and enjoyed without killing anyone, which brings me to the main point of my argument for the legal availability of drugs.

Columbia has a couple of greens party members hostage, has had for a while now. FARC (http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/farc.htm) (a revolutionary Marxist Guerrilla group in Columbia) is fighting off the proceeds of Cocaine and heroin.

This is a sad, sad, war on drugs, the children of the soldiers are sponsoring the murder of there fathers.

A legal supply, perhaps grown by the addicts, made available through a similar program as methadone, to registered/diagnosed addicts/users.

It is a tragic outcome, and the religious right has fought honorable, but the parents of the victims are speaking.

If Dope is the gateway to heroin, Alcohol and Tobacco are the gates to dope.

Employment is not the answer, it supports a users habit, without it, the addict becomes a criminal, selling or robbing. Sport? A lot of my friends used drugs, including myself, because we didn't buy the competitive nature of society.

A second suggestion I would make.

Most drugs have a traditional context that they are used in. A time and space.

Regulation, it is being pursued by the No Smoking lobby, successfully, I think most people in this forum would be aware of needle park?

I would like to apologize for my language, the other political forum I go to is a little more raucous! I am used to yelling this in front of an audience of supporters, it sounds better than it reads Again, my sincere apoligies

The gateway to any drug is the brain. No drug is a gateway to anything until someone wants it to be. We will never eliminate drugs until we eliminate pain.

I am not for legalizing heroin, because it is destructive to society's fabric, and threatens it. But pot is not a gateway; I know so many people who have smoked it, and not done anything else but pot, not even alcohol. Pot is mild.

The reason it is illegal is fear and money. Fear because certain people way up there on the hill view anything that causes euphoria as the devil's handiwork. Money because, since people can grow pot in their backyard, it cannot be regulated and taxed to hell.

__________________
lambaste me not

Can someone please explain the moral justification for drug control?

Some folks here have said that marijuana is OK but heroin is not. What is the distinction, and why should you and/or government make it? Whose body is it?

__________________
None love freedom heartily, but good men; others love not freedom, but license.
- John Milton

Either legalize all drugs or make all drugs illegal. I say legalize all drugs, let us pick and choose if we want to take them or not. People are held accountable for everything else in their lives, why not this? I mean, I'm not saying that employers should still hire people on drugs. That is where the line should go if there has to be a line. Employers should have the right to test for drugs and should have the right to say which ones they don't want people taking. I know that you can't drink on the job so there is a good example of a drug that is perfectly legal, but is not allowed at work. Why not use that same logic with pot. I say, if someone wants to smoke up, they can smoke up...sober up by work on monday and go in as though nothing happened, just like when you drink. ONe benefit is that pot yields little to no hangovers. The whole system needs revamping. But there are too many goody goodies out there that won't allow such a thing because they think if its kept illegal, their innocent little kids won't be able to get into it. Well I have news for these people, and that is that I have seen kids that can get almost anything you want, where, I don't know, ask them....kids have the connections...If it were legalized government would be able to control it more easily and keep it out of kids hands. I don't know...maybe I'm wrong...I'm sure someone will say so....let's hear it...

I think it may be some of both, but the pharmaceutical lobbies are DEFINITELY a huge obstacle. Also consider that there'd likely be a huge drop in drug stocks if pot were legalized (what congressman doesn't have a little Pfizer or Merck in his/her portfolio?)
Bottom line, it's still just too risky for any politician to stick his neck out and advocate legalization of pot. What would they have to gain? The stoner vote?? Nahh, not worth it.

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"The basic problems facing the world today are not susceptible to a military solution."

- JFK

It's not so much a moral issue as a social one... public health really. The use of addictive drugs, especially narcotics such as heroin, creates certain ill effects to society as a whole. Such things as increased burden on the health care system, increased crime, decreased job productivity, etc. - in the end we ALL pay for these things. So even though it's your own body, you become part of a greater problem when you get into serious drugs.

But you make a good point about drawing lines of distinction. The laws make no sense when you consider the ill effects of alcohol and tobacco, 2 legal (and LETHAL) drugs. That's why any argument against drugs on a basis of morality, or even social cost, is ridiculous. In reality it's all about the benjamins, baby!

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"The basic problems facing the world today are not susceptible to a military solution."

- JFK

I understand the "public health" arguments, but they are essentially utilitarian. I specifically asked for moral justification. The utilitarian arguments have problems as well, but at least I understand them.

If Joe Junkie wants to shoot up in his own basement, that is his problem. I couldn't care less. You want to make it your problem, you can send him a card or volunteer at the local drug prevention center. If you want to send armed men to his house, kick in his door and take him away, you better have a moral justification for it.

It gets worse. You are making it not only your business, your are forcing it on me as well. Through my taxes, I have to pay for your cause. Joe is hurting nobody, the armed men are hurting Joe, and I am forced to subsidize the armed men. What's the moral justification for that?

__________________
None love freedom heartily, but good men; others love not freedom, but license.
- John Milton

Drug control is utilitarian as well. There doesn't have to be moral justification. Lots of laws (and law enforcement practices) are of questionable morality.

__________________
"The basic problems facing the world today are not susceptible to a military solution."

- JFK