Thread: The War on Drugs is a War on Innocent People

The drug war has and will continue to be a complete and utter failure. It has had no significant impact on drug use and caused much more harm than good.

Why does prohibition cause more crime, you may ask? It's a simple matter of economics. When a good or service is in demand and their are materials available to provide a supply for those goods, trading of those goods will occur. When you make drugs illegal, it doesn't stop the trade from going on, it merely drives it underground.

Instead of being sold in stores and available to purchase safely and at a reasonable price, a violent black market has emerged as result of prohibtion.
If people want to use drugs, they will. Making it illegal just artificially drives the price up and the huge amount of enforcement of drug laws makes the business even more dangerous.

Keeping drugs like heroin for instance, illegal increases the risk of overdose and health problems tenfold.

This is what Heroin looks like after it is synthesized:



This is street heroin:

Notice the color?

Dealers cut it with dangerous additives that can be harmful to inject and may cause health problems.

It is also harder to get clean needles because of heroin's illegality. This increases the spread of blood-borne illnesses among users.

Heroin in its pure form along with mostly all other opioids, causes absolutely no organ damage whatsoever, the only adverse health effects are from overdose which can cause respiratory depression and withdrawal symptoms. Even then, it takes many hours to die after overdosing, and the person can be instantly revived with a dose of Narcan.

Instead of giving addicts a chance to heal and recover, we treat them like criminals and send them to prison. This only increases their chances to reuse drugs. Why should the government be able to tell you what you can put inside your body? If you don't hurt anyone else, then it should be allowed.

Also, children can get their hands on drugs much easier when they're illegal. Drug dealers don't card, supermarkets and stores do.

The war on drugs is a war on innocent people, don't support it.

Because this subforum is dead, I am reposting this in the Political opinions and belief forums. Mods, please lock this thread.

Colombia Drug Lord Wanted By US Gunned Down By Police...

Colombian drug lord wanted by U.S. for supplying tonnes of cocaine to Mexican gangs is shot dead by police
2nd January 2012 - Juan de Dios Usuga wanted by U.S. for trafficking; Four top lieutenants captured in early-morning raid; President tweets: 'What a good start to the year'

A Colombian drug lord who flooded the U.S. and Mexico with cocaine was shot dead in his own home on New Year's Eve during a police raid. Juan de Dios Usuga, wanted by the U.S. for supplying tonnes of cocaine to Mexican gangs, was leader of the powerful Urabenos cartel and had a $2.5 million bounty on his head. A team of 150 officers stormed the house, in the northwest area of Choco near the border of Panama, shortly after 6am. They had been tipped off he would be celebrating the start of 2012 there with his brother. Four of his trusted lieutenants were captured and one police officer was killed in the raid.

On hearing the news, Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos tweeted: 'The police put down in Choco alias Usuga, head of the Urabenos and captured various of his accomplices. What a good start to the year.' The Urabenos are one of Colombia's main gangs, along with Los Rastrojos, Los Paisas and Las Aguilas Negras. Usuga was a lieutenant of drug lord Daniel Rendon Herrera, who was captured in a 2009 raid. He had formerly been a right-wing paramilitary fighter and was also wanted for his involvement in a series of murders.

Colombia is one of the world's top producers of cocaine, and criminal gangs made up of former right-wing paramilitary groups and old cartels have become a major emerging threat to the nation of 46 million people. In November, Colombia and neighbouring Venezuela announced the capture of one of the region's most-wanted drug traffickers, who was head of the Paisas gang.

While bloodshed from Colombia's long guerrilla and drug wars has dropped since a U.S.-backed offensive began more than a decade ago, bombings, murders and combat continue, mainly in Colombia's frontier areas. The decline in violence has attracted billions of dollars in foreign investment mainly to Colombia's mining and oil sectors, which has allowed the country to boost crude and coal output to historic highs.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1iQ24qQFQ

See also:

12,000 Killed In Mexico Drug Violence In 2011
2 Jan.`12 — About 12,000 people were slain last year in Mexico’s surging drug violence, according to grim tallies reported Monday by the country’s leading media outlets. Annual indexes of torture, beheadings and the killing of women all showed increases.

More than 50,000 people have been killed during President Felipe Calderon’s U.S.-backed military confrontation with organized crime and drug trafficking, which began in 2006. The Calderon government, after promising to update figures regularly, has not reported its own death count, perhaps because the trend line does not look good. A government spokesman said new figures would be released later this month. The ruling party is facing national elections this summer, in which the main opposition party threatens to retake the presidency.

The daily newspaper Reforma, one of the nation’s most respected independent news outlets, reported 12,359 drug-related killings in 2011, a 6.3 percent increase compared with the previous year. There were 2,275 drug killings in 2007, Reforma said. Other media reported similar numbers. Daily Milenio recorded 12,284 drug-related deaths last year. La Jornada counted 11,890 deaths in 2011, which it says is an 11 percent decrease from the previous year. Regardless, in its annual tally La Jornada featured a cartoon that showed Father Time 2011 lying in the desert with his head chopped off.

In the Reforma count, the number of bodies that showed signs of torture grew to 1,079. Beheadings reached almost 600, up from 389 the year before. Reforma also found that women increasingly were victims of drug violence, with more than 900 slain last year. The newspaper did not offer a count of juveniles or children killed, but children increasingly have been caught in the crossfire or intentionally targeted to send a chilling message that the drug gangs will stop at nothing.

One of the few bright spots is that the homicide rate appears to be down by about a third in the border manufacturing hub Ciudad Juarez, once dubbed Murder City. Baja California and Tijuana also saw decreases in homicides. Yet the violence has steadily spread across Mexico. The states that abut Texas — Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas — remain the most deadly. But new zones of conflict, such as the once-mellow gulf coast state of Veracruz, are now gripped by a wave of killing.

Source

Originally Posted by Sonofodin

The drug war has and will continue to be a complete and utter failure. It has had no significant impact on drug use and caused much more harm than good.

Why does prohibition cause more crime, you may ask? It's a simple matter of economics. When a good or service is in demand and their are materials available to provide a supply for those goods, trading of those goods will occur. When you make drugs illegal, it doesn't stop the trade from going on, it merely drives it underground.

So I suppose then the war on child sex traffiking is a war on innocent people as well? And so too the war on illegal animal fighting? And so too every other hienous criminal activity? There is an imperative to prohibit certain things. Yes, these things will still go on, but the mere fact of something being illegal with serious penalty does stop many people from partaking. This is a simple and proven fact. The question is where to draw the line.

Keeping drugs like heroin for instance, illegal increases the risk of overdose and health problems tenfold.

This is what Heroin looks like after it is synthesized:



This is street heroin:

Notice the color?

Dealers cut it with dangerous additives that can be harmful to inject and may cause health problems.

And pharmaceutical companies do not cut pure drugs with other "impurities"?

Heres what DXM, (active cough suppressant ingredient) looks like pure.



Heres what you buy over the counter.



Notice the color? Pharmaceutical companies add impurities which make it more dangerous for people to get high off of cough medicine.

It is also harder to get clean needles because of heroin's illegality. This increases the spread of blood-borne illnesses among users.

Incorrect. Here is but one wikipedia article about need exchange programs which allow old needles to be exchanged for new ones, but many of them simply give away clean and new needles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle-exchange_programme

Also, many drug stores have sold needles in 4 packs and 10 packs. Its not the needle thats illegal its the drug.

Heroin in its pure form along with mostly all other opioids, causes absolutely no organ damage whatsoever, the only adverse health effects are from overdose which can cause respiratory depression and withdrawal symptoms. Even then, it takes many hours to die after overdosing, and the person can be instantly revived with a dose of Narcan.

Yes, aside from the physical addiction which cause many addicts to do whatever they can to get more of it no matter what the cost to their health or their freedom or other peoples safety, yes, its a fairly safe drug provided it is not used in excess.

Instead of giving addicts a chance to heal and recover, we treat them like criminals and send them to prison. This only increases their chances to reuse drugs. Why should the government be able to tell you what you can put inside your body? If you don't hurt anyone else, then it should be allowed.

People do hurt others when using this drug. There are many victims involved, to suggest otherwise is simply foolish. While in prison there are many programs and therapeutic communities to go through (many which are mandatory) also programs like drug treatment court allow for people who commit crimes relating to drug use to get out of jail and possibly eliminate their felonies by completeing the program. Sadly, the completion and success rate is low. This is not because they are "treated like criminals" but because you may only do so much for a person, they must want to quit drug use themselves. As a three time convicted felon who has served time in state prison I can tell you about all these programs.

Also, children can get their hands on drugs much easier when they're illegal. Drug dealers don't card, supermarkets and stores do.

And parents are so responsible and lock up their alcohol? Not in most the households I have frequented. Most of the time its kept in the refrigerator. Junkies typically do not forget where they put their drugs, they usually do them within moments of the transaction. Considering they will get sick from withdraw if they do not use them ,it is more unlikely for a child to get heroin then for a child to get a cold beer.

The war on drugs is a war on innocent people, don't support it.

Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma...

Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma…press silent
January 8, 2012 -- On December 21, Bethany Police Chief announced the arrest of Francisco Gomez, 31, who has been charged with multiple drug trafficking charges and is believed to have knowledge of the grisly murder of 19-year-old Carina Saunders.

Gomez’ co-defendant, Jimmy Lee Massey (aka “Big Country”), 33, was already in custody. Both are allegedly members of a drug/sex trafficking ring operating in Oklahoma. According to an affidavit, Massey has admitted to kidnapping another woman and forcing her to watch as Saunders was tortured to death on October 9, 2011. Massey also told investigators how the young woman’s body was then dismembered. On October 13, Saunders’ remains were discovered inside a duffel bag behind the Homeland grocery store at NW 23 and Rockwell Avenue. She had been beheaded and could only be indentified through dental records. Massey also told and investigators that Saunders was killed simply to send a message of to the kidnapped woman as well as other women to comply with those running the prostitution ring.

Chief Cole expects more arrests in the case. Many of those now under investigation are said to be Mexican nationals and the drug/sex trafficking ring is reportedly directly connected to one of the cartels. Though the mainstream press has failed to report on the growing cartel and Latin American gang violence in this country, beheadings and torture killings are nothing new. In 2005, two MS-13 members were convicted in an Alexandria, Va. United States District Court for killing a 17-year-old pregnant girl. A rope was placed around the neck of Brenda Paz, she was then stabbed repeatedly. Her body was then left along the muddy banks of Virginia’s Shenandoah River. The murder was retribution for the girl’s cooperation with a federal investigation into the gang’s activities.

MS-13 (or Mara Salvatrucha) was formed by Salvadoran, mostly illegal immigrants in the 1980’s, during El Salvador’s civil war. While the gang was originally made up exclusively of Salvadorans, they now accept all Central Americans as well as Mexicans. MS stands for Mara (slang for mob), Salva (El Salvador), Trucha (slang for on-guard). MS-13 began in Los Angeles and as members moved deeper into the country, more loosely structured gangs or cliques were formed. However, these cliques continued to communicate with one another, and the network was formed. Over the years, MS-13 has become better structured, and the FBI believes that the gang’s L.A. members have a higher status among the group. The gang typically targets high school and even middle school students for recruitment.

In October 2007, three Mexican nationals were charged with first-degree murder in the death of Mario Lopez, 27, also a Mexican national whose decapitated body was found a month earlier in the Atchafalaya River. On April 8, 2008, while testifying before the Florida House of Representatives in support of tougher immigration enforcement measures, Bill Stewart, Deputy Chief of Staff for Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum said: “Florida is the number one state in the nation for human trafficking. And I will just leave you with a recent story that occurred in the panhandle.” “There were several girls that were trafficked into the panhandle from Mexico. These girls were raped repeatedly over a week’s period of time, and one of them actually resisted while she was being raped.” “So the smugglers grabbed all of these girls, chained them in chairs, and put them in a room. They brought in the girl who refused to be raped, and they beheaded her, in front of all of the other girls that were in that room. And they left them there, with her body, and those little girls, for several hours,” Stewart concluded.

MORE

See also:

Virginia has become stronghold for MS-13
March 2, 2011 - MS-13 (or Mara Salvatrucha) was formed by Salvadoran, mostly illegal immigrants in the 1980’s, during El Salvador’s civil war. While the gang was originally made up exclusively of Salvadorans, they now accept all Central Americans as well as Mexicans. MS stands for Mara (slang for mob), Salva (El Salvador), Trucha (slang for on-guard).

MS-13 began in Los Angeles and as members moved deeper into the country, more loosely structured gangs or cliques were formed. However, these cliques continued to communicate with one another, and the network was formed. Over the years, MS-13 has become better structured, and the FBI believes that the gang’s L.A. members have a higher status among the group. The gang typically targets high school and even middle school students for recruitment. Initiation into the gang usually consists of the recruit committing a brutal attack on either a rival gang member or even upon an unsuspecting civilian. On November 26, 2008, Jonathan Retana was convicted of the murder of Miguel Angel Deras, which was part of an MS-13 initiation.

MS-13 has aligned itself with the Mexican Mafia, which has a large presence not only on U.S. streets, but is widely viewed as the most powerful prison gang. The smaller MS-13 pays the Mexican Mafia for protection, while their members are incarcerated. According to the FBI, there are at least 70,000 MS-13 gang members operating between Central America and the United States. The FBI also reports that the gang currently operates in 42 states as well as the District of Columbia. The highest concentrations are in California, the District of Columbia, New York, and Virginia. MS-13 set up shop in Northern Virginia during the 1990s, lured by the region's fast-growing Salvadoran population, later expanding into the Maryland suburbs of Langley Park and Gaithersburg.

The following violent acts were committed by MS-13 gang members in Virginia and the D.C. Metro area: In February 2011, Alexander Rivas, 18, was arrested by Alexandria police, following an investigation that began in November, when the father of a 14-year-old runaway told police his daughter was living with Rivas. Court documents state that the girl was found in the gang member’s apartment and she was being used as a prostitute. According to prosecutors, Rivas ran a prostitution ring, operating in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia, using underage runaways. The affidavit states that the business catered to “construction workers and illegal immigrants.” On a typical Friday or Saturday night, the operation would see about 100 customers paying for sex. Rivas typically charged $50 for sexual intercourse with the girls.

MORE

Remember, when you buy drugs - you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.

Originally Posted by waltky

Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma...

Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma…press silent
January 8, 2012 -- On December 21, Bethany Police Chief announced the arrest of Francisco Gomez, 31, who has been charged with multiple drug trafficking charges and is believed to have knowledge of the grisly murder of 19-year-old Carina Saunders.


See also:

Virginia has become stronghold for MS-13
March 2, 2011 - MS-13 (or Mara Salvatrucha) was formed by Salvadoran, mostly illegal immigrants in the 1980’s, during El Salvador’s civil war. While the gang was originally made up exclusively of Salvadorans, they now accept all Central Americans as well as Mexicans. MS stands for Mara (slang for mob), Salva (El Salvador), Trucha (slang for on-guard).

Remember, when you buy drugs - you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.

Isnt uncle ferd in a cartel.

Originally Posted by waltky

Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma...

Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma…press silent
January 8, 2012 -- On December 21, Bethany Police Chief announced the arrest of Francisco Gomez, 31, who has been charged with multiple drug trafficking charges and is believed to have knowledge of the grisly murder of 19-year-old Carina Saunders.


See also:

Virginia has become stronghold for MS-13
March 2, 2011 - MS-13 (or Mara Salvatrucha) was formed by Salvadoran, mostly illegal immigrants in the 1980’s, during El Salvador’s civil war. While the gang was originally made up exclusively of Salvadorans, they now accept all Central Americans as well as Mexicans. MS stands for Mara (slang for mob), Salva (El Salvador), Trucha (slang for on-guard).


Remember, when you buy drugs - you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.

When you support the prohibition of drugs, you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.

The stories you are sharing would have never happened if drugs were legal. People wouldn't have to do business with these dubious characters if the laws against drugs didn't exist.

Originally Posted by dreadpiratejaymo

When you support the prohibition of drugs, you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.

The stories you are sharing would have never happened if drugs were legal. People wouldn't have to do business with these dubious characters if the laws against drugs didn't exist.

Incorrect.

Originally Posted by Felix (R)

So I suppose then the war on child sex traffiking is a war on innocent people as well? And so too the war on illegal animal fighting? And so too every other hienous criminal activity? There is an imperative to prohibit certain things. Yes, these things will still go on, but the mere fact of something being illegal with serious penalty does stop many people from partaking. This is a simple and proven fact. The question is where to draw the line. And pharmaceutical companies do not cut pure drugs with other "impurities"?

A person who values freedom and recognizes that individuals own themselves considers whether the activity in question involves the involuntary cooperation of another, or force or fraud against another. Child trafficking harms children. It is a crime whether government recognizes it as such or not. The ingestion and sale of substances is not a crime when buyer and seller are engaged in voluntary exchange.

Putting people in cages for engaging in activities where there are no identifiable victims is a crime. Your goal may be to reduce what you deem to be immoral behavior (getting high or being dependent on a substance), but two wrongs do not make a right, and committing wrongs in order to achieve a "good" end only creates the sort of moral hazards that we have today and leads to a punitive society that has forgotten morals and embraces tyranny.

Originally Posted by Felix (R)

Incorrect.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.