[/quote]

hope it weeds out some SUV's before it's over.

__________________
the memories of a man in his old age
are the deeds of a man in his prime

roger waters

__________________
the memories of a man in his old age
are the deeds of a man in his prime

roger waters

agree with you on using less. Lower speeds save gas, which increases supply, which drives down prices.

I disagree on drillling in ANWR. It's just not worth it.

__________________
the memories of a man in his old age
are the deeds of a man in his prime

roger waters

__________________
the memories of a man in his old age
are the deeds of a man in his prime

roger waters

The money that would be used to open more oil fields would be far better spent on alternative fuel sources. The first would only be a temporary solution, a colossal band-aid across the modern world. Alternative energy, however, would sever the tie that threatens to ruin our civilization.

__________________
LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!

Yep.

Mounting weight of evidence? Which evidence are you referring to? That's the problem. We have much consensus and yet little real evidence. And quite frankly a consensus of scientific opinion isn't worth a whole lot. Popular theories are disproven rather frequently. In fact, in the 1970s, global cooling was a popular theory among scientists.

I may just be a lone voice in the wilderness here, but before making expensive policy decisions on the basis of climate models and such, shouldn't we at least require that those models be able to predict future temperatures accurately for a period of say, ten years? I mean, at the moment, scientists can't even accurately predict next week's weather. Yet we're supposed to believe they know what the earth's climate will be like in 100 years?

Now, all environmental concerns aside, I consider research into alternative fuels a good idea. However, I am against taxpayer dollars being used to fund that research. After all, how much government seed money did the fledgling oil industry need?

Merlin;
Let’s use the right words here! The price of gas fluctuates! It fluctuates up and down, but it never drops lower than the last significant increase??? It’s been that way since I started purchasing the stuff over 30 years ago??? The cost goes up pretty much consistently 3 times or so a year! It goes up $.04, then after a while it goes down $.02, and the political infomercials on the TV/radio says gas prices are going down and all is well, and people believe it, hook, line, and sinker???

Merlin;
So let me get this straight? The reason gas is so expensive (less than eye drops, WD-40), or the reason they tell us it costs so much (less than Jack Daniel’s, or A-1), is because they (I assume you mean the US oil companies?) cannot keep up with the demand, with our limited amount of refineries, so they have to send oil abroad to be refined to meet our wasteful demands!! And without building refineries to meet that demand, it only results in more oil being shipped around the world for absolutely no other reason than, to create the highest amount of profits possible?? And why not, America can afford it, and if they can’t these companies (and their political clout) will be compensated by the government for their short comings, just like the medical, pharmaceutical, insurance, agriculture, and several other industries that use the government to, how should I say it, subsidize their income???

I know, I know build more refineries, but the environmentalists won’t let oil companies to pollute the way they have in the past, and the oil companies say it isn’t cost effective to have refineries in the US, because of the extra (in their eyes, an un-necessary) expense?? Which is the reason we don’t have refineries in the US today, because it is cheaper (more profitable) in the long run to send the stuff over seas to be processed!! Not really a popular idea from either side???


Merlin;
By someone you mean the government??? Why would I consider their to be a cover-up (s) or a pay-off (s) involved??? You do realize that as we speak our elected officials in congress are “scrambling”, I believe was the word they used this morning, to submit legislation that would free our political representatives from being searched, possibly even investigated, for of all things, “breaking the law”!! Yes this landmark legislation will insure that they can take/accept bribes, redistribute tax money with impunity, money launder, or sell ‘your’ vote to the highest bidder, blatantly, without any fear of reprisal???

Never in the history of the US has there ever been any evidence that a judge took a bribe or had personal opinions that swayed their decision, or ever based their decision on other beliefs such as religion, race, creed, or the simple threat of financial stability??? Right, are you really that naïve, or just delusional???

I’m sure any logically thinking individual could look at record profits (with the gouging), record sales, record political pay off’s (political contributions), record tax breaks, and not to forget record R/D kickbacks for of all things, to find an alternative to the very commodity that has made them the richest companies in the world for over 100 years, but how dare anyone think that gouging, or any other illegal act is going on here???

For Pete’s sake, one of those poor companies just had to buy out one of their executive's for 1/2 billion dollars, because they cannot afford to have the guy taking up any more office space??? You know in the real world when a company can no longer afford an employee, they pay them two weeks severance pay, and send them down the road, or they just fire them!! Why would a company that is barely making it, buy off an employee who is directly responsible for their situation, unless there is some form of blackmail involved?? They seem to be paying everybody else, why not a handful of key judges???

This the same supreme court that said we have to provide medical and educational benefits for illegal trespassers so they can continue to live illegally among us??? Hmmm, you don’t suppose they might have been swayed by the fact that sending all those Mexicans back to Mexico, where they belong, would have a considerable short term negative effect on their personal portfolio, would it??? JP5 would be!!!

DUH chimes in, it’s the media they’re the cause;
Yes the hype the media applies to it??? The media is responsible for the lack of money in the average family budget these days?? They (the media) are the reason for families having to tighten their belt, and ignore the pleasures they once enjoyed, like taking the family out for a movie, to a sporting event, maybe a fishing trip, or even the simple pleasures of a Sunday drive (remember those), just a few of the many leisurely activities that are all being effected by the cost of fuel (Six Flags just announced that their annual passes (was $200.00 for years, is now less than $50.00) will only cost a few dollars more than a daily pass because attendance is down (or more to the point, in the crapper)??? And don’t think for a minute that the cost of fuel, doesn’t effect the cost of transporting food, clothing, utilities, beverages, or other consumer items including everything the wallyworld fleet carries!!!

I personally think it is time to visit the patent office and do a little research and utilize the “for the good of the people” clause, and start a “use it or loose it” program for all the patents the oil companies have purchased in the last 100 years dealing with reductions or alternatives to oil, and any others that deal with alternative fuel sources (solar, hydrogen, electric, battery cells, etc…)!!! Then we need to backburner NASA, and/or any visions of traveling to Mars for the moment, and put all those patents and other resources, to work creating a viable alternative to gasoline.

Oops I almost forgot?? The government isn’t owned by the people right now, it is owned by the oil companies and their subsidiaries!! The president (oil man), the VP (oilman), S of S (oilwoman), etc… etc…

Merlin;
Who do you think funds it now?? The government and the people who use the product!!! Sure as hell isn't the guy that just walked out with a promissory of 1/2 a billion dollars???

Sorry didn't mean to go so long! I eagerly await your reply!!!

__________________
There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.

Actually, it does, but that's neither here nor there. In any case, it sounds like you are describing a phenomena known as "inflation". For example, in 1920 the real price of gas (excluding taxes) was twice as high as in 1995.

I'm sorry, but I'm unable to decipher your response. My point was simply: the more oil produced in the U.S., the less that needs to be imported (a somewhat costly activty that tends to increase the price). Was any part of your reply aimed at that fact?

If I am naive, shouldn't it be rather easy for you to present mountains of evidence proving that every Justice on the Supreme Court is in the pocket of Big Oil? I'll just wait for that, then...

Again, I'm not sure what your point might be. My point is that innovation is quite capable of occurring independent of government funding (as was the case with the first oil well drilled in Titusville, PA in 1859). I see nothing in your response that disproves (or even addresses) that.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/...Refineries.pdf

From the link above;
Merlin;

WE, us, the United States doesn’t have enough refineries to supply our countries needs! Having more oil available to process doesn’t mean they can refine more or faster for that matter, the way you are suggesting???

Are we talking about the same thing???

Same link;
Merlin;
We talking about the same 1920’s when most people didn’t have cars, or for the most part never went more than 50 miles from their home in their entire life, except maybe when they fought in the war, or were not dependent on gasoline in general??? Nice cover but it’s not in any way comparable to 1995 by any stretch of the imagination!!!

Call it what you want, but 45% more in 3 years is a bit higher than the inflation rate for the same 3 years??? But you think it isn’t the cost of the product rising, but inflation??? I don’t think so???

Merlin;
Actually you are the one trying to make the case for their favoritism’s, not me?? I asked you if you believed;

Do you believe no judge has ever made a decision based on other beliefs other than the “law”?

Then I offered an excellent example of how the court justices have ignored the law, and made decisions on one of those other variables;

Cause in this example, they certainly didn’t make that decision based on the laws on the books, that says it is illegal to hire, harbor, transport, or aid an abed, known criminals, AKA illegal aliens!!! It would seem highly probable that they took into count the damage that may be sustained, overall, in areas like the stock market, or their own pocketbook, if they put a legitimate choke hold on any industry for any and all indiscretions???

Still from the link above;
And as I said before, neither side of the extremist level (environmentalists, or corporate oil companies) want them built!! Environmentalists because of the oil companies blatant disregard for the environment, or the oil companies, creating a situation where prices would “have” to go down!!

Merlin;
To replace whale oil with kerosene, not gasoline??? Not yet anyway!!!

http://www.priweb.org/ed/pgws/histor...sylvania2.html


Interesting story!! Investors were in the process of shutting down the operation when the drilling crew saw oil seeping! At about 69 feet they struck oil, but they weren’t the first!!! The first actual oil wells were dug for water and faithfully abandoned when the dreaded oil came to the surface. Pennsylvania became the supplier for ½ of the worlds oil needs, until the boom in Texas, and again they stepped down with the Texas/Saudi connection, that granddaddy Bush was instrumental in creating, that still survives today!!

Yes I believe it is possible for an innovative individual to stumble across the answer to most of our prayers, a viable alternative!! But with the government catering to corporate entities, many of those innovative ideas are squashed before they get a chance to fully develope!!! The sad part is the idea may be collecting dust on the shelf of the patent office??

Which is why I think it is a total waste of money to give oil companies access to more government money to try and put themselves out of business???

Since it is a matter of national security, we should put every effort into seeing that research (real research) is accomplished to find a "real" solution!! NASA, has already shown that we as a country can indeed “do” the impossible if we put our collective resources together, to find an alternative, or refine one of the many innovations we may already have like solar, etc…

???

__________________
There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.

Nope. My point is above. I would elaborate, but I just don't know how I could explain it any more plainly than I already have.

Again, I'm not sure who you are debating. If you don't like 1920, then pick 1981 (the height of the oil shock). In 2003, the real price of gas (adjusting for inflation and taxes) was 26% lower than in 1981.

Your claim was that the price of gas "never drops lower than the last significant increase". Obviously it does.

So that would be a "no" on the evidence, then?

Yep, and not one dollar of taxpayer money was needed.