Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Other Political Issues > Education


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2004, 04:16 PM
Quasi-Experimental's Avatar
Quasi-Experimental Quasi-Experimental is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The right side of the law
Posts: 371
Quasi-Experimental is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,545
Default Education

Many of our schools are complaining that the "No Child Left Behind Act" is not being funded. While I agree that there is limited additional funding for the program, I think that school budgets are sufficient to operate within the parameters of the act.

Here is where the money is going:

“Michigan public schools and public school academies, central administration costs have risen more than twice as fast as instructional expenses, including teacher salaries, over the past three years.”

“According to The Detroit News, last year eight Detroit employees were promoted to executive level positions and received pay increases between 11 and 48 percent. At the same time, Detroit teaching and support staff positions were cut. According to The News, DPS will now have 34 executive directors, each of whom earn between $98,000 and $132,600 and oversee school principals or administrative departments, such as adult education.”

“This translates to more than $846 per pupil in administrative spending.”

http://www.mackinac.org/pubs/mer/article.asp?ID=4366

Are the standardized tests a good idea? Yes. In order to be successful in professional life (or at least to compete with other nations), children must learn to be competitive and strive for success. Their reality check is standardized tests.

Teachers may teach to the test, and therefore lower the effectiveness of the education system as a whole. I ask is this a problem with the test or a problem with the teachers?

To the schools: You have the funds, spend them where they count, and stay out of our wallets.
__________________
"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame."

-Laurence J. Peter
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2004, 05:22 PM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,515
Demosthenes is on a distinguished road
Credits: 7,573
Default ....

There are many problems with our education system and you are correct in saying that just throwing money at it won't solve it. And you are also coorect about the non-education spending. Education spends about 50% of it's funding on non-education expenses (Admin, transportation, that sort of stuff). but the problem goes beyond that. There are over 1500 school districts in this nation with no national governing body and no national standards. Teachers make less and have less job security than in comparative nations. This is a major factor in the quality of our teachers. i agree that we need some form of national standardized testing b/c it helps evaluate our students on an even plane. But too much emphasis should not be placed on these tests b/c then we begin to tkae away from kids individual thought and personality. Then we are left with drones and none of us want that, or at least I hope they don't.

-Demosthenes
__________________
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2004, 05:51 PM
Quasi-Experimental's Avatar
Quasi-Experimental Quasi-Experimental is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The right side of the law
Posts: 371
Quasi-Experimental is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,545
Default Job security

Do you think that we have too much teacher job securuty? If they are forced to perform of be let go, won't that improve net teacher performance? I think so. The performers will be rewarded. The non-performers will have to seek new careers.
__________________
"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame."

-Laurence J. Peter
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2004, 03:08 AM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,515
Demosthenes is on a distinguished road
Credits: 7,573
Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasi-Experimental";p=&quot View Post
Do you think that we have too much teacher job securuty? If they are forced to perform of be let go, won't that improve net teacher performance? I think so. The performers will be rewarded. The non-performers will have to seek new careers.
No, I feel that they have less job security than teachers in other nations and this hinders their teaching. I think you misunderstood me.

-Demosthenes
__________________
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2004, 03:12 PM
TeenRepublican's Avatar
TeenRepublican TeenRepublican is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 385
TeenRepublican is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,061
Default Teachers

Look at your school when it comes to teachers. Its so hard to get rid of a bad teacher. I have seen some teachers who "do stuff" with students are never dealt with. Its a pretty secure job to say the least.

Since taking office in 2001, Bush has increased elementary and secondary funding by 48%, Title I fundin for low-income students by 52%, and special education funding by 75%. Look at the facts.
__________________
"Republicans believe that everyday
is the 4th of July, while the Democrats wish everyday was April 15th" - Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2004, 11:08 AM
DanM DanM is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 806
DanM is on a distinguished road
Credits: 5,702
Default We need higher pay, but more accountability as well

I agree with Dem that we need to pay teachers more to attract more talented people, but I do not think making them more secure is the answer. Teen Republican is right when he says its too hard to fire a bad one now.

We need to have pay increases coupled with very tough certification requirements and some sort of benchmarking for performance evaluations. Until these safeguards come into play, raises will only allow our poor performing teachers to be better paid for not doing their job.

While we may disagree on some of the remedies, I think we all agree with the goal of eventually moving towards a teacher profession that is paid on par with other professionals if it will attract better talent to the schools.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2004, 02:38 AM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,515
Demosthenes is on a distinguished road
Credits: 7,573
Default .....

I agree that we defiantely have a need for stricter standards for our teachers. These standards should be applied when they are first getting the job and throughout their career. However we should do whatever we can to ensure that those quality teachers who meet and exceed the standards are comfortable in the fact that they won't lose their jobs as long as they continue to excel.

There are also other problem to address. While smaller class sizes are the optimal situation, in our growing society with budgetting that deosn't grow at the same rate, this may not be so simple. But we may be able to address the problem in different ways. In Japan for example, the numbers of students per teacher are conssistent with our own. However instead of teaching 6 classes per day, they teach approx. four on average and have a couple of hours a day to develop their curriculum, plan their classes, grade papers, all to ensure that educational process in the classroom runs more efficiently.

The problem must also be addressed of what the educational budget is spent on. Approx. half of what school boards and schools spend their budgets on are non-educational expenses. These are spent on things like buses, administration, security, team sports. I think a way needs to be found the make the priority in the budget the education of the students. So how do we make that happen?

-Demosthenes
__________________
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2004, 11:06 AM
DanM DanM is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 806
DanM is on a distinguished road
Credits: 5,702
Default Vote for Demosthenes for President

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes";p=&quot View Post
I agree that we defiantely have a need for stricter standards for our teachers. These standards should be applied when they are first getting the job and throughout their career. However we should do whatever we can to ensure that those quality teachers who meet and exceed the standards are comfortable in the fact that they won't lose their jobs as long as they continue to excel.

There are also other problem to address. While smaller class sizes are the optimal situation, in our growing society with budgetting that deosn't grow at the same rate, this may not be so simple. But we may be able to address the problem in different ways. In Japan for example, the numbers of students per teacher are conssistent with our own. However instead of teaching 6 classes per day, they teach approx. four on average and have a couple of hours a day to develop their curriculum, plan their classes, grade papers, all to ensure that educational process in the classroom runs more efficiently.

The problem must also be addressed of what the educational budget is spent on. Approx. half of what school boards and schools spend their budgets on are non-educational expenses. These are spent on things like buses, administration, security, team sports. I think a way needs to be found the make the priority in the budget the education of the students. So how do we make that happen?

-Demosthenes
My solution is to put you in charge and make you deal with it.

Lets hope you don't have any nude photos floating around or your campaign might be in trouble. lol
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2004, 04:30 AM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,515
Demosthenes is on a distinguished road
Credits: 7,573
Default .........

Give me about 20-25 years, and I'll be running.
Vote Demosthenes (insert real name) in 2028!

-Demosthenes
__________________
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2004, 04:59 PM
Quasi-Experimental's Avatar
Quasi-Experimental Quasi-Experimental is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The right side of the law
Posts: 371
Quasi-Experimental is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,545
Default Remember

When you are campaigning, remember to tell the parents that many of our problems in the education system originate in the home.

Look, if I have 4 classes per day or 6, if I teach for 6 months a year or all year long; it doesn't matter. Do you think that the superior educational mechanisms in other countries is actually that much better than ours? I don't. It is not a matter of education process, it is a matter of accountability.

I could go to the library for 2 hours a day and learn more than I could in a U.S. classroom. Why? Because I chose to learn and made the effort.
__________________
"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame."

-Laurence J. Peter
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden