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Thread: Should we stop funding Liberal Arts Education with public dollars?

  1. #21

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    At the height of WWII Winston Churchill was asked to support the defunding of the arts, he was Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative party. His answer? "What are we fighting for?" In this forum, there are those who think with the left side of their brain, some that think with the right, and some that utilize both sides, all are American.
    "Againsed stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain." F. von Schilling

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  3. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldjar07 View Post
    Why work your ass off for something if you don't have to? Like I said in my earlier example, if people were smarter and there was no stupid jobs like mine, people wouldn't need to work their asses off for something. Work smarter, not harder. Another example would be the difference in economies of Mexico and the U.S. Mexicans work just as hard as people in the U.S., yet they make half as much.
    And there you have why americans ar lazy, employers want someone that is a go getter. One that will innovate and improve. maipulating into a job with "I know a guy" don't often cutt it to keeping a job in the real competitive world of employment.

    But as you say, do less for more. The only place that can be successfull is the public schools system.

    Like all the people of America (other than the Native Americans) their families worked hard in tuff conditions to get to where they put their families. At this juncture in the American histor, that trend does continue with most of the immigrants. Chinese and Mexicans on the West coast, and West Indians, jewish, Indians, and Pakistanis on the East coast and areas all over.

    Only in the confinds of the sheltered safe and structured relm of the public education system does the adults come to take advantage of their benifits throughout their careeers as an educator.

    For the massess that suffer trhough the public school it is only a small part of their real world life, and the things they learn in "school" don't realy apply to the real world. More often than not, the massess move on and mature to learn about the real world and real skills needed to survive in the competitive world of real employment and buisness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaimon View Post
    Why does everything have to be about the bottom line? Shouldn't we be interested in knowledge for the sake of knowledge?

    Alright, let's assume that the only thing important in this world is the bottom line. Does that mean that the Liberal Arts are useless? On the contrary, Liberal Arts includes things like English, communications, political science and sociology. Are those things not important to a business person? So what you can program an entire OS in machine language. Who's going to hire you if your resume consists of text-speak and 1337 spelling. All the engineering skills in the world don't mean excrement if you can't communicate to others.

    Here is the tale of two Steve's. Steve Wozniak was a hacker and a phreaker in the 70's. He started building his own computers and selling them to his buddies at the Hombrew Computer Club. However, it was his friend Steve Jobs that took the idea of building computers for people and turned it into a multibillion dollar business. What college did Steve Jobs attend? Reed, a liberal arts college in Oregon. Is it coincidence then that the big selling points of iPhones, iPods and Macs are their ease of use and unique design? Is it coincidence that it was Steve Jobs that did the public speaking?

    How much of a CEO's job is actual business and how much of it is politics? An IT manager once told me that as a tech he relied more on the technology classes of his college degree, but as a manager, he relied more on the general education classes (i.e. the Liberal Arts classes) of his college degree.




    Maybe if the bank had some managers who knew a little about human behavior and not just math they wouldn't have needed to pay your company to do surveys, they could have figured out that the fees were a bad idea themselves.

    The funny thing is that math is considered a Liberal Art. Of course the irony that we're arguing over whether or not to fund Liberal Arts, which includes Political Science, on a political forum is not lost on me.

    In every job, there is an element of human interaction, after all, we're social animals. Wouldn't it be a huge benefit to be able to understand your fellow humans? That is what Liberal Arts is all about.
    It depends on what you count as liberal arts. If you count math, politial science, economics, etc. as liberal arts, than some liberal arts classes are good. However, things like music, english, foreign language, art, and music are stupid. The thing is you don't need a class for most liberal arts things anyway. You can't understand your fellow humans without a class? Do the managers at the bank really have to take a class to know about human behavior? I could tell you customers would be pissed off with a service charge without having to take a liberal arts class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeConservateur View Post
    I have a degree in general studies, one in history and am doing another one in French. It could be argued at all three of these are "useless" degrees, but there is no question that my education has helped me get jobs and, most important, to think critically.

    I say let kids study what they want, but give them loans that they have to pay back and only approve them for what they are reasonably going to be able to pay. I don't think any degree should be on the taxpayer's dime.
    What are taxpayers going to do with that money? Probably blow it all on (*)(*)(*)(*) they don't need.

  6. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldjar07 View Post
    It depends on what you count as liberal arts. If you count math, politial science, economics, etc. as liberal arts, than some liberal arts classes are good. However, things like music, english, foreign language, art, and music are stupid. The thing is you don't need a class for most liberal arts things anyway. You can't understand your fellow humans without a class? Do the managers at the bank really have to take a class to know about human behavior? I could tell you customers would be pissed off with a service charge without having to take a liberal arts class.
    In the USA most of those "Art" classes like music literature, poetry, photography, art, sculpture, etc... are not a significant requirement of the Liberal Art degree. Unless the major is in those diciplines. But forigen Language is very important; Americans need to get ready to abandon their native land for better job opportunities. Seriously, They need to go abroad to be successfull in the future. That's were the real good paying jobs are and will be in the nest 3 to 4 years. Call it the new gold rush. Those without the language ability will not be able to do it, by the time people realize it, it will be too late and all the gold will be gone.


    Corporations establish buisnessess and corporations abroad, and they take their staff with them to manage the establishment of their forgen corporations.

    This is a global interconnected world in which we live. And that trend will continue, as the emerging countries need corprations to assist in their development. IF not from the USA they will take it from Russia, China, India, Korea, And most of the South Americas.

    I digress:
    The only reason they have thses fun art classess is because some are good at it and they need jobs within the education systems. Why? because it's fun, and it's easy, and they get child hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint Torres View Post
    In the USA most of those "Art" classes like music literature, poetry, photography, art, sculpture, etc... are not a significant requirement of the Liberal Art degree. Unless the major is in those diciplines. But forigen Language is very important; Americans need to get ready to abandon their native land for better job opportunities. Seriously, They need to go abroad to be successfull in the future. That's were the real good paying jobs are and will be in the nest 3 to 4 years. Call it the new gold rush. Those without the language ability will not be able to do it, by the time people realize it, it will be too late and all the gold will be gone.


    Corporations establish buisnessess and corporations abroad, and they take their staff with them to manage the establishment of their forgen corporations.

    This is a global interconnected world in which we live. And that trend will continue, as the emerging countries need corprations to assist in their development. IF not from the USA they will take it from Russia, China, India, Korea, And most of the South Americas.

    I digress:
    The only reason they have thses fun art classess is because some are good at it and they need jobs within the education systems. Why? because it's fun, and it's easy, and they get child hours.
    Why don't they just have 1 world language so people don't have to waste their time learning more than 1? I understand if a few people are good at it and want to make a career of art, but a vast majority have no chance to make a decent living off of the art degree they get. Why are people required to take these worthless liberal arts classes if they don't want to? If someone likes art, that is fine with me. Just do it on your own time and stop wasting my time.

  8. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldjar07 View Post
    Why don't they just have 1 world language so people don't have to waste their time learning more than 1? I understand if a few people are good at it and want to make a career of art, but a vast majority have no chance to make a decent living off of the art degree they get. Why are people required to take these worthless liberal arts classes if they don't want to? If someone likes art, that is fine with me. Just do it on your own time and stop wasting my time.
    The reality of the world is, there are many languages. And no country has the ability to dominate the world and change any culture to speak one language.

    If you know anything about language, it has psychological and cultural impact on the ability of people to learn. Look into language and psychology and cultural anthopology. There you will learn the types of language and the history and development of language and writing in culture.

    Forigen language is one of the most important factors for developing minds, it develops logic, and resoning ability as well. There are studies duing the boom of the 1960s that looked into languages and its impact on cognition and culture.

    Understand that forigen language is more than an art. Other advanced education countries know how important it is. That is why they are superior to the USA when it comes to all aspects of culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint Torres View Post
    The reality of the world is, there are many languages. And no country has the ability to dominate the world and change any culture to speak one language.

    If you know anything about language, it has psychological and cultural impact on the ability of people to learn. Look into language and psychology and cultural anthopology. There you will learn the types of language and the history and development of language and writing in culture.

    Forigen language is one of the most important factors for developing minds, it develops logic, and resoning ability as well. There are studies duing the boom of the 1960s that looked into languages and its impact on cognition and culture.

    Understand that forigen language is more than an art. Other advanced education countries know how important it is. That is why they are superior to the USA when it comes to all aspects of culture.
    The U.S. has the ability to do it. I only took 2 years of foreign language in high school, but I have more reasoning ability than anyone else. I do pretty much the opposite of what all these studies say, and I get straight A's in school. I really don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about culture. You can take as much foreign language as you want, but why should I be forced to take a foreign language class? What if you take a spanish class, but want to get a job in Germany or something like that? You would have done the spanish class for nothing then.

  10. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldjar07 View Post
    The U.S. has the ability to do it. I only took 2 years of foreign language in high school, but I have more reasoning ability than anyone else. I do pretty much the opposite of what all these studies say, and I get straight A's in school. I really don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about culture. You can take as much foreign language as you want, but why should I be forced to take a foreign language class? What if you take a spanish class, but want to get a job in Germany or something like that? You would have done the spanish class for nothing then.
    Simple answer; it is required. And they want you to take a certain number of credits because they want your money. No other reason. plain and simple. Universities are a bidness.

    Can you dig it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cenydd View Post
    Science is what makes it easier to live well. Art is what makes it worth living. Both are important.
    His policies aren't going to eliminate art in florida. Just won't fund college degrees that won't produce jobs in his state.

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