Thread: What should children be taught?

Originally Posted by Panzerkampfwagen

But that will go against modern parents coaching them that they only have rights.

True, but it must be done, for the next generation!

Originally Posted by Thinker

True, but it must be done, for the next generation!

that would be a nice thing. But in real world education. things will remain the same. The world (real world) will just pass the USA by. Who in education realy cares about the next generation. If they did, they would send their kids to private school.

Originally Posted by Clint Torres

that would be a nice thing. But in real world education. things will remain the same. The world (real world) will just pass the USA by. Who in education realy cares about the next generation. If they did, they would send their kids to private school.

When I was at uni a few years ago I read one of the US's PISA reports. It was basically a brag about how they beat Mexico. MEXICO.

Canada and Australia's reports made it seem like the sky was falling in both countries and something must be done to stop it. Funnily enough the US was in the bottom half of the countries involved in the test and Canada and Australia were in the top 5 for many of the areas tested.

Originally Posted by Panzerkampfwagen

When I was at uni a few years ago I read one of the US's PISA reports. It was basically a brag about how they beat Mexico. MEXICO.

Canada and Australia's reports made it seem like the sky was falling in both countries and something must be done to stop it. Funnily enough the US was in the bottom half of the countries involved in the test and Canada and Australia were in the top 5 for many of the areas tested.

I dont think raising education budget would work, we need more imposing education formations, better teachers, better (*)(*)(*)(*).

Originally Posted by Thinker

I dont think raising education budget would work, we need more imposing education formations, better teachers, better (*)(*)(*)(*).

The US vastly outspends, per student, the countries that beat it in the PISA tests, so it's not money, it's pedagogy.

We had a few American lecturers at my university. They had "escaped" the US and come to Australia to teach and had eventually become university lecturers teaching how to teach. They all complained that in the US education is traditional. Students sit down at their desks, they're expected to shut up and the teacher throws boring information at them. The average US student never conducts a scientific experiment in their years at school, they either watch the teacher do it or they watch a vid of someone do it.

Elsewhere in countries which are beating the US liberal education pedagogy (not to be mistaken for teaching political liberal values) is used where the students create the knowledge in themselves instead of being told. The teacher guides the students.

Originally Posted by Panzerkampfwagen

The US vastly outspends, per student, the countries that beat it in the PISA tests, so it's not money, it's pedagogy.

We had a few American lecturers at my university. They had "escaped" the US and come to Australia to teach and had eventually become university lecturers teaching how to teach. They all complained that in the US education is traditional. Students sit down at their desks, they're expected to shut up and the teacher throws boring information at them. The average US student never conducts a scientific experiment in their years at school, they either watch the teacher do it or they watch a vid of someone do it.

Elsewhere in countries which are beating the US liberal education pedagogy (not to be mistaken for teaching political liberal values) is used where the students create the knowledge in themselves instead of being told. The teacher guides the students.

Indeed....

Originally Posted by PatrickT

That would be hilarious if the results weren't so pitiful. The value of hard work? How about the value of extortion in setting wages and benefits? That would be something teachers actually know about.

The critical teaching has to take place at home. When I started talking to me son about sex we strted with honor and responsiblity and not oral ex and anal blocking.

Left to the schools, enither of my children would read. Oh, they might know how to struggle along and say the words but they wouldn't be reading.

My children got all the liberal progoganda the schools generate. That what schools are for. Human-caused global warming was presented as a fact. Diversity was a lesson in who to hate. My personal favorite were the lessons on why the U.S. should be hated. The goal was to turn out Michelle Obama's who are proud only when a member of the family is nominated for president.

If you have children, you have to home school even, or especially, if your children attend public schools.

Good parents never go on strike.

In bold above is one explanation why our public education system fails. It's because you believe in forcing personal behavior into the education process that simply does not exist for millions of kids! That you ignore the fact that millions of kids DO NOT have perfect education parents means you are on the wrong path. It's stupid for you to expect something that simply DOES NOT exist! Forget about the parents...figure out how public education should be designed based on the kids and between the hours of 8am to 4PM Mon through Fri which also means no home work...

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

In bold above is one explanation why our public education system fails. It's because you believe in forcing personal behavior into the education process that simply does not exist for millions of kids! That you ignore the fact that millions of kids DO NOT have perfect education parents means you are on the wrong path. It's stupid for you to expect something that simply DOES NOT exist! Forget about the parents...figure out how public education should be designed based on the kids and between the hours of 8am to 4PM Mon through Fri which also means no home work...

I somewhat agree with the old dude on fire.

Originally Posted by Panzerkampfwagen

Critical thinking.

Oh wait, the religious right won't like that one.

Critical thinking today does not need to mean analytical process; critical thinking today is relative to the desired outcome...not the mathematical or scientific outcome...but the outcome which best supports the personal bias du jour.

Religion is a great example as you point out. Political bias is another example. And there's cultural bias...which is probably just a hybrid of religious and political bias with a dash of ignorance.

Our self-serving needs will never allow us to find consensus...

Originally Posted by Panzerkampfwagen

When I was at uni a few years ago I read one of the US's PISA reports. It was basically a brag about how they beat Mexico. MEXICO.

Canada and Australia's reports made it seem like the sky was falling in both countries and something must be done to stop it. Funnily enough the US was in the bottom half of the countries involved in the test and Canada and Australia were in the top 5 for many of the areas tested.

Both last year in a group meeting with Obama, and again in the authorized biography of Jobs, Steve Jobs made it clear the reason for all Apple manufacturing being off-shore WAS NOT about cheaper labor...but that other cultures offered much better workers; from their education to their work skills to their personal focus. Jobs also told Obama point blank that those jobs are never coming back to the USA. Between Apple and it's contractors there is something like 800,000 workers on Apple products.

I also know that Microsoft and other high tech companies are off-shore for these same reasons of having access to better workers. And this includes these same companies lobbying the government to allow more green card workers into the USA each year because they can't find qualified workers in the USA.

Even with this face-smack of information, I have not seen a single indication from Obama, or anyone in the administration, about approaching this problem with viable and timely solutions...many of which begin with the public education system and followed by access to college...