Thread: What should children be taught?

Originally Posted by Thinker

I dont think raising education budget would work, we need more imposing education formations, better teachers, better (*)(*)(*)(*).

How about this scenario; If we need better teachers, then we need to demand higher qualifications and much higher compensation. So, one result of having better qualified teachers will be higher budget costs. BUT, and here's the rub on this, which actually parallels Apple's problems finding workers in the USA, if we demand higher qualified teachers...where are we going to find them?? How long will it take the USA to develop a core of highly qualified teachers? And if we install highly qualified teachers, then the rest of the education system must support their endeavors!

Sadly, I believe public education is like so many other issues in the USA; it requires paradigm shifts, redesign, sacrifices, a (*)(*)(*)(*)load of money...and I just don't see the American public supporting this level of effort...

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

if we demand higher qualified teachers...where are we going to find them??

China and Japan

Originally Posted by Thinker

I somewhat agree with the old dude on fire.

Explain 'somewhat'...

Originally Posted by Thinker

China and Japan

If we truly elevated the qualifications for teachers, including the compensation, which is tantamount to what has happened in the high-tech sector, I wouldn't be surprised if 25% of the teachers come from off-shore...

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

How about this scenario; If we need better teachers, then we need to demand higher qualifications and much higher compensation. So, one result of having better qualified teachers will be higher budget costs. BUT, and here's the rub on this, which actually parallels Apple's problems finding workers in the USA, if we demand higher qualified teachers...where are we going to find them?? How long will it take the USA to develop a core of highly qualified teachers? And if we install highly qualified teachers, then the rest of the education system must support their endeavors!

Sadly, I believe public education is like so many other issues in the USA; it requires paradigm shifts, redesign, sacrifices, a (*)(*)(*)(*)load of money...and I just don't see the American public supporting this level of effort...

You can demand all the qualifications you want, but that does not stop the lazy and criminal minded malingerers from infecting the eduction system. In fact that is what is going on today. The protectors of tenure want eductors to have many so called "qualifications" like a degree, certificates, and other BS that do not add up to performance. All the statistics and BS propaganda studies data does not show that leadership and performance is the key.

Leadership to command a class, and performance to involve the students in the task. that is what is needed, and it is never used to evaluate a educator.

Stuff like amout of students going to college, dropout rate, test scores, and other BS marks of qualifiactions are just secondary to what an educator should be doing.

As long as kids are kept stupid and have their spirit broken after the 6th or 7th grade, they will become failures. The educators in US public schools want it that way. They do not want competition for their kids who go to private schools.

Capitalism education, that is what the USA has, it is not a national or socialist system. It is all about self profit, and how to make profit off someone who is making profit.

The USA should be proud that they have created a education system that has created the best consumer class in the world.

Originally Posted by Clint Torres

You can demand all the qualifications you want, but that does not stop the lazy and criminal minded malingerers from infecting the eduction system. In fact that is what is going on today. The protectors of tenure want eductors to have many so called "qualifications" like a degree, certificates, and other BS that do not add up to performance. All the statistics and BS propaganda studies data does not show that leadership and performance is the key.

Leadership to command a class, and performance to involve the students in the task. that is what is needed, and it is never used to evaluate a educator.

Stuff like amout of students going to college, dropout rate, test scores, and other BS marks of qualifiactions are just secondary to what an educator should be doing.

As long as kids are kept stupid and have their spirit broken after the 6th or 7th grade, they will become failures. The educators in US public schools want it that way. They do not want competition for their kids who go to private schools.

Capitalism education, that is what the USA has, it is not a national or socialist system. It is all about self profit, and how to make profit off someone who is making profit.

The USA should be proud that they have created a education system that has created the best consumer class in the world.

This is because the Blue Social Model of the 1940's-50's required people to move en masse at the sound of a horn, take a break at a certain time, live in the same cracker jack house, etc. To basically be the drones in a State Capitalist model similar to what China is now.

Our educational system was specifically designed for what you complain about, and people are so stuck on that sort of thinking and cultural training they refuse to do what needs to be done to change it.

"Progressives" are, except for a couple narrow social issues, actually the worst of economic regressives. They refuse to give up the dying blue social model our society was based on and are defending a crumbling social model that is unsustainable in the 21st century onslaught of technology. They are the true conservatives.

They want 20th Century solutions to 21st century problems and to change that would destroy both their power base and their income streams.

The truth is "Progressives" are not socialists, but State Capitalists and State Capitalism is pretty much just as evil as Socialism.

They should probably be taught that over-reaching Government/Big Business/Big Banking (or as I should probably call it, GovNessKing, GNK) are our worst enemies and should be destroyed, and that you have to FIGHT for what you believe in rather than hope that things go your way.

My quick and dirty education:

1. Logic. it's importand because if you can do logic, you can reason out most things just by grasping the relevent facts of the case. It's the cornerstone of all other learning.

2. Mathematics. This is how the world is run. Finanance is math, science is math, physics is math, cooking is math. There's just no way a person should be considered educated unless he does well in mathematics. It's basicly a survival skill at this point anyway.

3. Sciences. This is how we know the difference between true and false. It's where we get modern society.

4. History. Real history, not the flaky feel good stuff. An educated person should be able to explain the causes and effects of any event in history.

5. English. I don't care where you live, the language of commerce and science are both essentially English, so you should be able to read and write grammatically correct English.

6. Arts/Literature. I think the decline of the arts (AKA pisschrist and other stupid art) is because we've lost any sense of what good art looks like. We accept a lot of garbage because we've never been exposed to the real thing. Do you really think that modern art holds a candle to Shakespeare or Da Vinci? absolutely not. Modern art is what happens when artists lack any technical skills and thus resort to making "statements" mostly by telling stories about their art. No educated person is going to pay thousands of dollars for a green swatch that looks like a paint swatch from Lowes. The benefits of studying real art as opposed to fake art is also that a person learns the technical skills that allow him to express himself in a way that communicates to others, rather than art that requires an explanation.

7. Business. I don't know why business isn't really taught from grade school up. MOst people work for companies, yet the level of ignorance about how companies work and what they actually do is pretty scary. The number of people here who literally think that the boss only exists to hold down the workers is rediculous. Yes they do hold down wages among other costs, but it's more about staying competitive in the industry rather than simply to make as much cash as possible.

I know most schools have a gym class, however, I think given the state of American education, that should be curtailed until the average HS grad can compete at a reasonable level on the world stage. As it stands, our kids are basicly illiterate and innumerate, and thus any time not spent getting them up to snuff is time wasted.

Originally Posted by Caeia Iulia Regilia

My quick and dirty education:

1. Logic. it's importand because if you can do logic, you can reason out most things just by grasping the relevent facts of the case. It's the cornerstone of all other learning.

2. Mathematics. This is how the world is run. Finanance is math, science is math, physics is math, cooking is math. There's just no way a person should be considered educated unless he does well in mathematics. It's basicly a survival skill at this point anyway.

3. Sciences. This is how we know the difference between true and false. It's where we get modern society.

4. History. Real history, not the flaky feel good stuff. An educated person should be able to explain the causes and effects of any event in history.

5. English. I don't care where you live, the language of commerce and science are both essentially English, so you should be able to read and write grammatically correct English.

6. Arts/Literature. I think the decline of the arts (AKA pisschrist and other stupid art) is because we've lost any sense of what good art looks like. We accept a lot of garbage because we've never been exposed to the real thing. Do you really think that modern art holds a candle to Shakespeare or Da Vinci? absolutely not. Modern art is what happens when artists lack any technical skills and thus resort to making "statements" mostly by telling stories about their art. No educated person is going to pay thousands of dollars for a green swatch that looks like a paint swatch from Lowes. The benefits of studying real art as opposed to fake art is also that a person learns the technical skills that allow him to express himself in a way that communicates to others, rather than art that requires an explanation.

7. Business. I don't know why business isn't really taught from grade school up. MOst people work for companies, yet the level of ignorance about how companies work and what they actually do is pretty scary. The number of people here who literally think that the boss only exists to hold down the workers is rediculous. Yes they do hold down wages among other costs, but it's more about staying competitive in the industry rather than simply to make as much cash as possible.

I know most schools have a gym class, however, I think given the state of American education, that should be curtailed until the average HS grad can compete at a reasonable level on the world stage. As it stands, our kids are basicly illiterate and innumerate, and thus any time not spent getting them up to snuff is time wasted.

I agree with the first three, and also with teaching english,however i think it would help to teach other language classes as well, art is really a free thing, you shouldnt be able to grade what a child wants to draw if he wants to, language is good. However the cutting gym is bull, most of the nation is literate, we have a bigger problem with childhood obesity.
We should really just motivate them to listen and learn more, discipline them to a higher degree, get better spending plans, and get better teaching plans(so that they arent as bored and learn more useful stuff).

Originally Posted by SiliconMagician

This is because the Blue Social Model of the 1940's-50's required people to move en masse at the sound of a horn, take a break at a certain time, live in the same cracker jack house, etc. To basically be the drones in a State Capitalist model similar to what China is now.

Our educational system was specifically designed for what you complain about, and people are so stuck on that sort of thinking and cultural training they refuse to do what needs to be done to change it.

"Progressives" are, except for a couple narrow social issues, actually the worst of economic regressives. They refuse to give up the dying blue social model our society was based on and are defending a crumbling social model that is unsustainable in the 21st century onslaught of technology. They are the true conservatives.

They want 20th Century solutions to 21st century problems and to change that would destroy both their power base and their income streams.

The truth is "Progressives" are not socialists, but State Capitalists and State Capitalism is pretty much just as evil as Socialism.

I agree to some extent. The USA is a broke system that is the demise of the USA and is responsible for the USA's slow but sure deterioration.

If Kids are taught accountability, leadership, and teamwork at an early age, they will be competitive and progressive as adults. But we know the owners of the USA will not let that happen. And the owners of the USA like the current public education system just the way it is. So no change can be expected.

The US schools are just fine for the elite. After all, the elite do not want competition for the money they hoard.