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  #581 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2010, 01:21 PM
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Eliminating official poverty through the mechanism of unemployment compensation would be more cost effective and could lower our tax burden.
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  #582 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2010, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Eliminating official poverty through the mechanism of unemployment compensation would be more cost effective and could lower our tax burden.
^ huh?
/please do elaborate...
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Old Yesterday, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
Shiva's assertion here was shown in another thread to be based on widely unrealistic assumptions about investment income and false intentionally misleading factual premises (like investing at 15% when SS only takes 12.4% including the employers contribution and a maximum 20 year payout upon retirement) in this thread here:

Okay, how do we pay for the deficit?

Don't be mislead by misleading figures based on faulty and unrealistic assumptions. SS is not a bad deal at all for the average person versus what they could get in the private market with safe returns.
This is highly misleading because the numbers used for my calculations were for a 40 yr investment period with the investments exclusively in T-Bills at a below par ROI and also assumes that Social Security will not have to reduce payments in the future even though the CBO has shown that Social Security expendatures will exceed revenues by 25% in the future.

But sticking with just T-Bills current projected yield on T-bills is over 4.7% (see link) and even with investing just the 12.4 percent of income from age 20-70 (current retirement age for Social Security) the ROI would be about $800,000 gross and assuming life expectancy of 100 the monthy payment would be over $4000 or $48,000 annually.

http://www.forecasts.org/30yrT.htm

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Primary Annuitant -- Birth date: 03/20/1940 (*)(*)Sex: M
Quote Expiration Date: 03/28/2010
Benefit Commencement Date: 05/01/2010
State of Residence: WA
Payments per Year: 12
Total Premium Amount: $800,000.00

Initial Payment Amount for Fixed Period Certain Only Annuity with 30 Years Guaranteed: $4,065.88
This is the "worst investment plan" with the "lowest possible return on investment" and it still beats Social Security.

A diversified portfolio, which is recommended by all investment experts, would result in a ROI equal to or greater than 10% and would still be a very safe retirement strategy and would result in about $4.3 million at retirement age 70. If we assumed that this amount was converted into T-Bills at age 70 the annual income at 4.7% interest alone is over $200,000 per year forever!!!!!!

Social Security is a joke from any financial standpoint when compared to private retirement investment accounts.
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  #584 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM
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Shiva,
What's really disingenuous about the argument is that it assumes that the SS payout will remain what it has always been.

Of course, this cannot possibly be the case. SS went into the red for the first time this year, and is projected to be deeper and deeper underwater from here on out. The trust fund that was supposed to make up for the shortfall has already been spent by Congress.
Rather than paying SS to make up for what it took, Congress is ripping another half a trillion *out* of it's hide with the Obamacare bill. All this at a time when the baby boomers are starting to retire. It's a perfect storm.

SS cannot remain solvent under these conditions, yet he projects that the payout will somehow remain unchanged. Real life doesn't work like that.
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Last edited by GoSlash27; Yesterday at 06:23 AM.
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  #585 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 08:36 AM
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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I believe it is even more disingenuous to not have recourse to a market friendly poverty elimination scheme that conforms to state at-will employment laws and the federal at-will employment doctrine.
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Old Yesterday, 09:02 AM
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Are you talking about a job policy like in France where it is very hard to fire employees?
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Old Yesterday, 10:38 PM
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All above ideas have become pointless, Americas New health plan will drive deficit spending to new highs and make the ability of the economy to grow out of the debt impossible. Sad day for the future of america
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  #588 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 11:46 PM
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2888 View Post
Are you talking about a job policy like in France where it is very hard to fire employees?
Under at-will employment doctrine and state laws, in principle, a market participant should be able to apply for unemployment compensation, merely for being naturally unemployed.

There is no reason to deny or disparage a person's privileges or immunities without just cause.
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