I just watched Giuliani's new web ad, which links Hillary to MoveOn in a very negative way. Do you think MoveOn is doing more bad than good for Democrats now, or do you think its just a way to rally Republicans?

It's becoming widely know how the democrat candidates kowtow to moveon.org. It's really weird - any dem you voted for you would have to wonder it they're just a moveon.org puppet!

Yes.

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The Commucrats deserve whatever they get from that useless propaganda site. They could have come out and said something long ago, but didn't.

Now, just like a spoiled brat kid, whose parents never kept him in line, he needs to act up more and more to get attention. Unfortunately, now the parents have realized that they can't control their kid anymore.

Serves 'em right. MoveOn.yak are the new voice of the Commucrats, whether they like it or not. Whether they agree with them or not.

yup.

Yes, in many ways it is. Which makes it rather ridiculous to believe that the democrats are puppets to Moveon.org. I would be surprised if the neocons would be willing to concede that the democrats stood up for their principles even if they were unpopular and hurt their electability.

My short answer would be, that MoveOn's "Petraeus Betray Us" piece, definitely hurt the Democrats. Longer-term, it's hard to say.

Move on has something like 3 million people it works with, most of them are net-based, so they communicate by e-mail and the like, but they do raise money for the Dems and provide campaign workers for them.

So it's really a "small fraction" of the Dem apparatus at large - if it even "is" a piece of the apparatus - I suppose it would be fair to say that it is, at this point, and probably a pretty significant and important one too (and that's why you didn't see Hillary or anyone trying to put "lots of distance" between MoveOn and the Dems) -

But, elections are getting pretty close these days, right? 2000 was pretty hotly contested, and 2004 wasn't just because the Dems didn't get the right candidate, but in '08 I have a feeling it's going to be a very tight race and every vote will count. So from that viewpoint, I'd say the "gain" the Dems get from MoveOn, is probably more than the "cost" of having them in the tent -

But the Dem strategists themselves, are actually on the air today, telling these MoveOn people to back off. And MoveOn has just sent a survey to its member asking for re-assurance that they're doing the right thing.

So,l we'll have to see whether MoveOn gets the message and tones down, or whether they're going to let their more libreral elements run the show.

In any event though, I don't think you'll hear "outright denunciation" from the Dems, any more than you'd hear any of the Reps say that "Bush is a jerk.

The real uuestion for the Dem primary, it seems, is "which" of the Dem candidates can play better ball with MoveOn - 'cause the latter will have quite a bit of money and talent to contribute to whoever becomes the nominee....

“In the last year, grassroots contributors like us gave more than $300 million to the Kerry campaign and the DNC, and proved that the Party doesn't need corporate cash to be competitive. Now it's our Party: we bought it, we own it, and we're going to take it back.”

Edwards has been licking their backsides ever sice.

Hillary is afraid to confront them.

etc.

In general the Democrats cow tow to MoveOn and of course you guys trying to downplay it know that full well.

__________________
McCain/Palin 2008
"We make war that we may live in peace"
"Peace is the highest aspiration of the American People. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever."
"Keep that faith,keep your courage,stick together, stay strong,do not yield,do not flinch,stand up,we're Americans,we'll never surrender they will"
http://members.cox.net/neddy/bobhope_kerfuffles.wmv
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnfflRNpwKA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QYIP7o2-A

Well, you're right of course, they do kow-tow from time to time -

But five percent or so, is like, a LOT of votes when the chips are down.

I mean, let's see, who would be "five percent" of the Republican base - the libertarians perhaps? What do you think would happen if the Reps lost the libertarian vote? Then GW wouldn't have become Prez in 2000, and Gore would have been Prez during 9/11, and we'd be living in a very different world today.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to [u]defend[u] these people, all I'm pointing out is that they're "significant", 'cause any time you get five percent ot the people to see things the same way, that's a pretty significant chunk of voters, and it IS a "chunk", which given the right rhetoric and approach can be addressed as such and hopefully gained in its entirety as a voting "block". See?

So yeah - I mean, the Reps have little 527 groups like Freedom's Watch and what's the new one - but I don't think they have anything quite like MoveOn.

On the other hand, the Reps have this behemoth called the Religious Right, and that, is much more significant, than MoveOn is for the Dems.

And, I think you'll see the Republican Party "kow-two" to the Religious Right as well - I mean, they certainly did during the last election, which is why the Religious Right seems to be getting awfully angry with GWB and the Republican Party these days - the word is, they feel "betrayed" because they were made promises, and things weren't delivered......

So - hmm.... I dunno what to say. I'd keep an eye on those MoveOn ads though, if I'm reading the winds correctly what'll happen is that they'll start targeting ONLY George Bush, 'cause that's a guaranteed sure-fire way to get people on board - if they're smart, they'll realize that some of these "other people" (like Petraeus in particular) are a little "too risky" to attack that way.

The Democrat candidates are fools for not denouncing moveon. Those few percent of extreme lefties have no place else to go. They will vote Democrat regardless. The 35% in the middle, however, are up for grabs and they don't like their generals to be insulted.

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