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Old 02-01-2008, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
Reagan-Bush as well. I think Richardson would be a good choice. I actually like him. One of the very few D's I like. Not hijacked by the left wing like Obama and others.
I don't understand this "highjacked by the left-wing" thing.
Richardson's a liberal. He just doesn't believe in gun control and has some alternate economic ideas- neither of which is inherently illiberal. His foreign policy stances are among the most liberal of all the candidates.
Policy-wise he was certainly my favorite, having time to look over everything.
But he has the problem of being a very lousy speaker... Seems weird considering he's a diplomat.
Not sure how that would affect his ability as commander in chief but it certainly hurt him in the campaign.
For gods' sake, Hillary brought "experience" into the game and Richardson was the only candidate with experience in both foreign policy and executive office.
Obama brought up "change" but Richardson's agenda is actually more deviant from the status quo, more liberal in some ways I'd dare say.
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:48 AM
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Default staining Obama

Yeah, this concept of Obama gettnig "stained" somehow, by whatever forces there are out there, is kinda interesting.

"Hijacked by the left wing", that's one thing I've heard -

"He's getting DLC endorsements, why is that?" is another one -

"Oh oh, the big money is getting on board now" is another one -

Right? All these concepts, kinda revolve around this idea of Obama getting "stained" somehow.

That's a really interesting piece, right there. What do you think about it?
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:19 AM
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Right? All these concepts, kinda revolve around this idea of Obama getting "stained" somehow.

That's a really interesting piece, right there. What do you think about it?
Obama's a double-edged figure. He's pretty liberal as far as viable candidates go... but he's pragmatic enough to come off as moderate and be moderate in all practical measures of accomplishment. That's part of the reason people like Nader don't like him. They see incrementalism as weak.
And it makes him a lot like Hillary in a way... Moderate out of pragmatism.
But I'd argue there are important differences:
1. He does come from somewhere closer to the grassroots. He rose a lot at once, but he did rise from the bottom.
2. His moderation is one of trade-off and negotiation, rather than defeatist moderation. He will attempt to make gains for liberal ideas, but accept having to give conservatives something as a necessary cost. The implementation of ideas seem more important than the winning. For Hillary, winning seems to now be the end in itself.
3. Obama respects the opposition. Despite being more liberal, he listens to conservatives as humans with differing opinions rather than using divisive rhetoric to compensate for lack of real difference.

Now with all that said, Obama is a rising star. He's finding himself in a position of more pressure to conform to the mainstream wants.
And he's gaining the attention of the Democratic Leaders... the very force he seems to be in conflict with. Many seem to be ditching the Clintons for him.

The question is:
A. Did the DLC mighty have an epiphany and realize that Obama's way is better?
B. Or are they trying to keep him under control by offering him power?

If B is the case:
I. Will he make the best of the power he is given and ultimately force change in the Democratic establishment?
II. Will he become the new Clinton? This is especially haunting as he acknowledged the importance of running while he was still in touch with real people.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:24 PM
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I don't understand this "highjacked by the left-wing" thing.
Richardson's a liberal. He just doesn't believe in gun control and has some alternate economic ideas- neither of which is inherently illiberal. His foreign policy stances are among the most liberal of all the candidates.
Policy-wise he was certainly my favorite, having time to look over everything.
But he has the problem of being a very lousy speaker... Seems weird considering he's a diplomat.
Not sure how that would affect his ability as commander in chief but it certainly hurt him in the campaign.
For gods' sake, Hillary brought "experience" into the game and Richardson was the only candidate with experience in both foreign policy and executive office.
Obama brought up "change" but Richardson's agenda is actually more deviant from the status quo, more liberal in some ways I'd dare say.
I don't agree with many of his foreign policy issue (Kyoto waste of time for example). But he's fiscally conservative, supports a balanced budget amendment, voted for DOMA, wants to end oil subsidies, tough on criminals (especially sex offenders), supports death penalty, hard liner on drugs, supports nuclear power...I'm strongly against his illegal immigration policies. But of all the D's he's by far the most palatable IMO.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:28 PM
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I don't understand this "highjacked by the left-wing" thing.
May have been a little strong, I don't know that he's a moveon.org liberal who will befriend Roger Moore like Hillary. But his policies are very liberal.
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Quote:
there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.


The result:
Quote:
By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:59 PM
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Default ..

This is freakin' great!!! You guys are the best, I mean it.

You know, I'm coming to the realization, that my work in politics, may be over, for a while.

I mean, you know, how can I say this - I've been on a razor's edge these last 4 days. It started with that Bill Clinton thing, remember, down there in SC? And I mean, that little sentence - one sentence - started this huge cascade of events, that still hasn't even finished. I've been tracking this very closely, this is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to look at under a microscope. to get my "education" that I feel I needed, in a particular specific area of "political belief and behavior".

So like, when Kennedy did his little endorsement speech there, I kinda already knew what was happening, right? But when I actually heard the words - it was like, physical, right? I felt this "wave of relief" pass over my whole entire body, and the feeling that went with it, was like a million pounds had just been lifted off my shoulders, and the words that went with it, were this kinda thought like, "oh man.... maybe this long nightmare is finally over"....

And then this morning, when I heard that Christian right guy say what he said about Ron Paul, that sealed the deal.

It was, like, suddenly everything in the political universe had been set right again.

I mean, is this making any sense?

This last four days, has been remarkable, I mean, really - I really do believe, that political analysts are gonna be looking at this one for a long time.

I have never before experienced anything like this, in politics, in my 48 years on this planet.

And I mean, I've been together with a "lot" of people these last few days, and the vibe, the buzz on the ground, has been entirely consistent. It's almost like, one of those situations where everyone feels exactly the same thing at the same time, for no explicable reason. Know what I mean? It's kinda one of those odd phenomena like in that Spielberg movie Close Encounters, right? Where people of diverse walks and geographies, suddenly get this "vibe", and converge around it - very strange stuff, right?

And I mean, that's kinda what this was - very unusual. An entirely massive shift of momentum, that happened almost "instantaneously".

And that moment, that single exact moment, it was like, all these "concepts" converged all at once, in lots of different peoples' minds, all at the same time. And as a result, both parties are re-shuffling, and political allegiances are re-aligning, and the whole deck of cards is being re-shuffled exactly like it's supposed to!!!

Right? This is exactly how our system is supposed to work!!!

And I mean, this "pivotal event", how I look at that, is, that people have kinda been "confused" lately, they haven't really known "what to believe", right? And there's been awareness of "spin", but not necessarily a real-time ability to individuate it.

So, that little deal there, the spin-followed-by-truth-followed-by-reaction-to-truth, was like a "conduit" opening up for all this information flow, so like, suddenly it all made sense, right? Suddenly - boom - that is spin, and there's no question about it - and then, boom - that is the truth, and there's no question about it. Right? It was almost like that.....

Anyway, you know, I've only been doing this politics thing for a very little while, and the only reason I felt the need to get hip to it in the first place, was 'cause I got the sense that something in this space was very, very wrong, and I wanted to find out what was up.

And I mean, my [u]only[/U} effort, in all this, has been to kick a few ostriches and run like hell when they wake up mad!

And I mean, right now at this moment, I'm a very happy camper! My sense right now, is, "all is not lost", and I didn't have that sense four days ago.

That piece, right there, I tag, as hope.

That's what this man, Obama, is offering me. At least, that's what I "see" that he's offering me.

And I mean, that - you know, when you're drowning in a huge sea, you don't say no to a life preserver, right?

Well, I dunno if this makes any sense - I'm very tired, and I need to go get some sleep. I'm probably just rambling, but I just wanted to share that with y'all.

God Bless America! With His help (and maybe a little bit of yours and mine too), we'll make it.



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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
This is freakin' great!!! You guys are the best, I mean it.

You know, I'm coming to the realization, that my work in politics, may be over, for a while.

I mean, you know, how can I say this - I've been on a razor's edge these last 4 days. It started with that Bill Clinton thing, remember, down there in SC? And I mean, that little sentence - one sentence - started this huge cascade of events, that still hasn't even finished. I've been tracking this very closely, this is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to look at under a microscope. to get my "education" that I feel I needed, in a particular specific area of "political belief and behavior".

So like, when Kennedy did his little endorsement speech there, I kinda already knew what was happening, right? But when I actually heard the words - it was like, physical, right? I felt this "wave of relief" pass over my whole entire body, and the feeling that went with it, was like a million pounds had just been lifted off my shoulders, and the words that went with it, were this kinda thought like, "oh man.... maybe this long nightmare is finally over"....

And then this morning, when I heard that Christian right guy say what he said about Ron Paul, that sealed the deal.

It was, like, suddenly everything in the political universe had been set right again.

I mean, is this making any sense?

This last four days, has been remarkable, I mean, really - I really do believe, that political analysts are gonna be looking at this one for a long time.

I have never before experienced anything like this, in politics, in my 48 years on this planet.

And I mean, I've been together with a "lot" of people these last few days, and the vibe, the buzz on the ground, has been entirely consistent. It's almost like, one of those situations where everyone feels exactly the same thing at the same time, for no explicable reason. Know what I mean? It's kinda one of those odd phenomena like in that Spielberg movie Close Encounters, right? Where people of diverse walks and geographies, suddenly get this "vibe", and converge around it - very strange stuff, right?

And I mean, that's kinda what this was - very unusual. An entirely massive shift of momentum, that happened almost "instantaneously".

And that moment, that single exact moment, it was like, all these "concepts" converged all at once, in lots of different peoples' minds, all at the same time. And as a result, both parties are re-shuffling, and political allegiances are re-aligning, and the whole deck of cards is being re-shuffled exactly like it's supposed to!!!

Right? This is exactly how our system is supposed to work!!!

And I mean, this "pivotal event", how I look at that, is, that people have kinda been "confused" lately, they haven't really known "what to believe", right? And there's been awareness of "spin", but not necessarily a real-time ability to individuate it.

So, that little deal there, the spin-followed-by-truth-followed-by-reaction-to-truth, was like a "conduit" opening up for all this information flow, so like, suddenly it all made sense, right? Suddenly - boom - that is spin, and there's no question about it - and then, boom - that is the truth, and there's no question about it. Right? It was almost like that.....

Anyway, you know, I've only been doing this politics thing for a very little while, and the only reason I felt the need to get hip to it in the first place, was 'cause I got the sense that something in this space was very, very wrong, and I wanted to find out what was up.

And I mean, my [u]only[/U} effort, in all this, has been to kick a few ostriches and run like hell when they wake up mad!

And I mean, right now at this moment, I'm a very happy camper! My sense right now, is, "all is not lost", and I didn't have that sense four days ago.

That piece, right there, I tag, as hope.

That's what this man, Obama, is offering me. At least, that's what I "see" that he's offering me.

And I mean, that - you know, when you're drowning in a huge sea, you don't say no to a life preserver, right?

Well, I dunno if this makes any sense - I'm very tired, and I need to go get some sleep. I'm probably just rambling, but I just wanted to share that with y'all.

God Bless America! With His help (and maybe a little bit of yours and mine too), we'll make it.



This post changed my life. mostly because i tried to read it, but failed. so it was kinda a waste of my life, but still it did change it.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:54 PM
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Only reason the media is bringing this up(its completely media driven) is simple.

1. They know now McCain is going to be the Republican Nominee
2. They know their Obama media push will not garner him the nomination.
3. They realize Hillary will be getting the nomination.
4. They realize a Hillary vs McCain fight will very likely go to McCain.
5. They see Obama bringing in the moderate/liberal Democrats who will not vote for Hillary..but might very well vote for McCain.


Obama doesn't want to play the VP in a Billary WH and likely wants to run again in 2012 instead of being forced to wait possibly until 2016.

Hillary has no intentions of being upstaged by the 'coulda been' whenever she flounders. He will help emphaisis any scandals or negatives she find herself in simply by beign there.


Whatever....Its not going to happen.
Its as much a media creation as he started as.

(You might also note in almost every instance its not Obama/Hillary its Hillary/Obama..a subtle and likely unintentional admittance by much of the media pushing this theory that they know Hillary is going to get the nomination)
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
What do you think about a Clinton-Obama ticket?

Some Dems, are calling this, the "Dream Ticket".

Others, don't see it that way.

What do you think?

Do you think it has any chance of happening?

If it does, do you think it has any chance of winning?

That' no dream, it's a nightmare. Hillary is a liability!!
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:02 PM
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I believe Hillary will choose someone she believes will be able to bring in more hispanics. I think it will be Bill Richardson. She will base her decision solely on who she feels will help her win; not who she believe would be best to take over as president or what would be best for the country. Don't forget---she's power-hungry.
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