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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 01:22 AM
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Sums it up well.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuH2 View Post
20 Years isn't Guilt by Association ... 20 Years is Association.
To debate that I would look at "association" first. Association is a broad term
and defined by context. The association Obama has with Wright is by his own
definition one of a mentor. That is a selective relationship, not circumstantial.
It implies that Wright represents a source of information Obama is interested
in gaining.
The second point is "guilt" [by association]. Here guilt is a prognosis on the
nature of the association. Since the association here is that of a mentor and
his student the ideological link is justified.

Quote:
Difference is rather simple.
"Simple", in the terms of this point is far more a function of personal perception
that fact.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 02:05 AM
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Yes its useful to understand ones enemies. And hey Chavez is on the same wall as dictators, thats nice. But then criticising America is a terrible sin isn't it?
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raeka View Post
What I heard was that the hate being spewed by his pastor is all our fault.
Well at least his message hit home for some people. Good for you!
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 05:02 AM
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My grandma, at my wedding rehearsal dinner, referred to "gooks" while seated next to all of my future Filipino in-laws. It was an unforgettable moment. I had to turn to her and say, "Grandma, that's an insulting term for Asians." She was mortified. She had no idea what the term meant.

I guess I'm throwing her under the bus by telling this story....
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
My grandma, at my wedding rehearsal dinner, referred to "gooks" while seated next to all of my future Filipino in-laws. It was an unforgettable moment. I had to turn to her and say, "Grandma, that's an insulting term for Asians." She was mortified. She had no idea what the term meant.

I guess I'm throwing her under the bus by telling this story....
My grandmother died a few years ago at the age of 104. I never heard her say one thing that was racist. Now try to imagine if you have a black grandson, would you say anything racist in front of him? Yeah, even if she did, he definitely threw her under a bus.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 06:43 AM
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I disagree. I think he was trying to express that he can relate to the changing norms. Even though my parents have some racist views (and expressed them about my ex-husband, who was Asian), I still love them. That is a practical reality of life in the U.S. Differing generations have differing perspectives on race.

I can say honestly that even though my parents have some racist tendencies that I do not in any way respect, they are also basically good people who live decent lives, and I respect them in many ways. They are still role models for me.

Race is complex.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
My grandmother died a few years ago at the age of 104. I never heard her say one thing that was racist. Now try to imagine if you have a black grandson, would you say anything racist in front of him? Yeah, even if she did, he definitely threw her under a bus.
Exactly ,but this is a person that many poor misguided mostly black Americans by the %'s the last few Primaries want to lead this Country . I have no fear of that happening now because us Whitey males which are so important in this election now see Obama for what he is which is an empty shirt . The # 's and the exit polls from the last few primaries attest to what i speak of . Us whitey men are now flocking to Hillary so i guess Obama can have his over 90% of the black vote because it means nothing now with us whitey men all boarding the Hillary train !
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 08:04 AM
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What Obama was trying to say was how ingrained racism is into American culture. His grandmother was able to overcome that racism with regards to Obama because of her love for him. She was able to see past the color of his skin and truly know him. But even having such a close connection to blacks, she still succumbed to her ingrained racism when she encountered other African Americans. Obama used this story to show an example of how people are capable of rising above racism but that the ingrained nature of racism itself is difficult to overcome, even for someone so closely connected to that which they are prejudiced against.

He was trying to set an example for all of us in his speech by acknowledging the divisiveness of Wright's comments but embracing the man he knew was underneath all the racially-charged and anti-American statements, regardless of all the damage this could do to his campaign. He was showing us what it means to rise above racism - to acknowledge one's faults, address them, and focus on the inherent good in people.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 08:08 AM
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us Whitey males
Remember, you were the one that called yourself "Whitey."
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