I understand full well the partisans consoling each other here won't really read what I write, just as they haven't really payed much attention to what Obama said. They'll do the usual spiel by taking words out of context, and torturing them to get whatever meaning they want out of them- It won't matter.

Its hilarious that you pretend to be offended for his grandmother's sake- welcome to honesty chums, I get the feeling you're not accustmed to it. Ironic you invoke her btw, keep up the hypocracy.

Oh and seeing as so many seem to think he "didn't address the main issue", the remarks and why he'd stay in such a church round, I thought I'd bring them to your attention- 6:57- http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords/

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"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS. "

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For those of us that already could see that two sermons highlighted by the media does not neccasarily mean 20 years of unknown sermons and interactions are of the same flavour, we know that these were not the main issue of this speech- that it moved into much more important territory, and did so in a courageous, honest fashion.

He did what so few leaders do- addressed the voters with respect and engaged their intellect- risked actually leading on a subject, instead of closely following opinion polls.

I don't know how this will translate in numbers, but I'm optimitsic enough to think that my own response is shared by many others; not just those that already supported him as I did, but also those that he reached out to- all Americans.

For myself I was worried initially that his response before this speech was to cut Wright loose- an obvious political ploy, that would have been unfair to his former pastor. Instead he addressed it, and the larger issues regarding this incident. Oh and he did it so well, I can't help smiling.

On a side note- I'm still willing to defend/discuss any of Wrights remarks (bar the one about Aids as I'd need to do alot more research on that before I can). There is a brief response from Clinton on the speech (just in the intro of a speech from what I've seen, she hadn't seen Obama's yet; I agree with Sue that this is the end for Clinton btw). Has anyone seen a McCain response yet?

Ronin quotes Obama as saying......."I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy."

And so????

The past few generations of whites in this country have also condemned, in unequivocal terms, what our forefathers did regarding slavery and laws that discriminated against blacks, too. Thus, all the changes to try and remedy thes past wrongs. BUT obviously, this latest view into all-black churches shows us that it's meant nothing. So, how long does it go on? How many more generations do they perpetuate and pass on the hate? Obama and some other black leaders talk about "moving on" and "coming together".....and yet, I don't see that they are making that effort. In short, I don't see them following MLK's quest to "judge people by their character and not the color of their skin." I see them perpetuating the hate, resentment, of whites and wanting to pass down the victim status to their children. Fortunately---and it's the only thing that is keeping me hopeful, is that not all blacks feels this way.

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

And you won't see it anytime soon, at least until black America decides they have had enough of the flamed hatred from these guys, and the reason...MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They get rich and powerful spewing hate, and the bottom line is, well, the bottom line.

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Cheney is the second executive officer to shoot someone in the face and chest. Clinton was the first.

Let me ask you this ronin, what was taken out of context? Are you saying all us rational and clear thinking humans couldn't dissect the contents of his hate?

Quit making excuses for this racist crap, it is pathetically sad, and it really makes those that defend this hate speech as racist as the one saying those things.

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Cheney is the second executive officer to shoot someone in the face and chest. Clinton was the first.

That's because not all of us say that.

I haven't seen you chastize a single member's racism expressed hear, and in my short time, I've actually been quite shocked at the volume.

You've certainly been critical of the un-PC black perspective on racial issues, but I have yet to see a single conservative denounce another for purporting racism.

The exception being Truth-bringer.


So, you can denounce the actions of your fore-fathers, and that is well and good, but it means a lot less when you don't denounce your fellow conservative contemporaries.

Many props for JP5 ressurecting this thread.

Just as most black people don't feel this way, not all white people have moved on as completely as you suggest. This latest view is evidence of that too.

You don't see this speech as an effort to move on? I've seen responses, from people from both sides, presumably all races, and they are saying that it resonated with them. He calls both sides to account, and to emphasise that you face problems as one people, not as different races. You've echoed him: "For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past."

Like he said, don't judge Wright and his church on this alone- atleast reflect on the insight Obama gives into his church and Wright. As for saying that efforts to move past this have failed, as examplified by this church- not really, when its helped to produce someone who is clearly risen above the hate like Obama.

What I highlighted here was to refute some people's claims that he didn't address the issue with his pastor- I don't see what angle he didn't address it from.

I really don't get how someone can look at Obama, and this speech, and say hes hateful- he confronts the issues and says that people have to get past any hate they have, to work together- "I am my brother's keeper" etc. Seems like the exact opposite.

What was taken out of context? What wasn't? Wright's few remarks from a twenty-year career? Wrights remarks out of context with reality- To me, alot of the stuff he said wasn't all that outlandish, and while angry certainly wasn't directed at a whole race (also myself being white, and liking America, I don't see how I'm a-hating by considering and agreeing with some of what he said). Now people are rallying to the cause of Obama's grandmother, as through he was insulting her- in context of the speech it makes pefect sense and was entirely respectful.

If he'd just jettisoned Wright, instead of defending him and critiscising him, no progress would be made. His attitude is one of understanding the underlying problems of racism, and I respect him all the more for dealing with this as he did.