Its true... I'm sure its hurts you Americans to hear it, but somebody has to stop the Republican War machine... and I know the right person to do it!

JOHN KERRY 2004

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Vote John Edwards 2008
Join the campaign to change America
http://johnedwards.com

Liberals are hardly brainwashed. I agree, some are simply following the trends. Yet against the grain makes a clean cut. Liberals simply analyize and put the issue on a ground level.

No, No, No,... come on people! This isn't what being liberal is about. Why are you attacking each other in this manner? It just boggles my mind! There is something that has always bothered me about this, and that is the name calling and labeling. (Neo-con). The conservatives are not the cause of all of America's problems. Remember, there is always something positive that you can find in the worst leaders of this country. Actually Nixon wasn't such a monster as we all have made him out to be. He removed troops from Vietnam. He opened trade with China. See! There are some positive things that he has done. Although I don't agree with a lot of things he has done in this country. He is a human being! I really, really, wished that Bobby Kennedy had not had his life cut short. The man was a great person and a great human being! He would have been the BEST president we never had!! And remember, it takes a guy in a dress to end all of that!! So keep your heads up!! WE can make it a better place! I'm betting on the people!!!

Yours,

Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

another DBG follows pinniped and posts something insulting and irrelevant. Please re-read my earlier post, if you care to respond to it, and not some fantasy about what you think I said, then do so. Your response makes no sense when read in context with my post. And, what Moore said.

Oh dear Macca if only it were true.

The numbers of nutters who claim to be conservative seems to be balanced by numbers of nutters who claim to be liberal. The definition of nutter would of course not apply to any regular fellow poster to this forum.

Now if everyone was like me, fair and balanced and rational then....

Cheers,

Trot

I used to be a liberal, and now I'm not. So I've seen the world from both sides now, not to coin a phrase.

The difference?

Well, as a liberal, I got to feel superior, and feel that I occupied the higher moral ground, without putting out any effort. All I had to do was hate conservatives and everything they stood for. I didn't have to stand for anything myself.

As a conservative, I have to work a lot harder, because I have to think a lot more. As a conservative, there are some other conservatives I like and some I don't. (As a lib, I automatically fell into lockstep with anyone with the right lib credentials.) As a conservative, I have to examine every conservative issue, because there are some I agree with and some I don't. As a conservative, I have to take responsibility for my own thoughts and actions, because I developed them myself. But mostly, I have to be consistent, and I mean consistent ABOUT something, not just consistently AGAINST something.

So...Tom, I am not religious. I can't remember the last time I was in any church, for any reason, and I have never read the Bible. But I do think the moral backbone of this country is its deeply religious foundation. This is the first country in the world, in history, to be founded on religious beliefs. The Founding Fathers were deeply religious men, and they came up with the concepts for this country, and its long-lasting form of government, because of their faith in God. They were wise enough to create a country, and government, open enough to embrace people like me, and people who do not believe in any kind of higher power, but when you study the writings of the Founding Fathers you find faith in God in nearly every sentence, and certainly in every ideal.

I do not believe it is essential to be religious to be an American. I do not think it necessary to have any religious faith at all to be a part of this great country. But I do think it is essential to recognize the foundation of our way of life, and to respect those who do have faith. And I think it is clear that the efforts to deny the existence of a higher power, to secularize every aspect of American life, is detrimental to the dream of our Founding Fathers, and undermines the tenets that have made our democractic form of government so strong for so long. I don't think the absence of a religious orientation in our citizenry is a serious weakness, but I think the hatred of religion is. The inability to respect religion, and accept its role in our entire history as a nation, is a problem. The need to denigrate religion, or for that fact any concept that requires us to try to be better than we are, is not a good need.

I see a lot of a Jerry Springer attitude in many of these posts---a sniping nastiness, a vicious desire to tear down and destroy rather than build and improve. And funny enough, those same characters are the ones going after you now.

I believe the strength of this country is that for most of its history, we knew we could look up to those who had achieved more than we had, and knew we could aspire to equal them. Now the fad is to look at those who have achieved more than we have, and then try to drag them down to where we are. It's not a good change.

Anybody who thinks in terms of 'liberal' or 'conservative' is brainwashed.

Very true.

Looking at anything from just two sides is not only intellectually lazy, but is an effective way to control the people. The one thing that’s easier is giving them only one choice...

And did Michael Moore really reply to this thread, or is it an imposter

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Proudly a "South Park Republican"

brian34.... right on. The American conceptions of "liberal" and "conservative" is largely the cause of much confusion in the U.S. Saying Liberal can mean that you are a modern liberal, or a communist, or an anarchist, or a libertarian.... and saying that you are conservative can mean that you are a modern conservative or an authoritarian or a fascist, or a libertarian. It means nothing. The word liberal and conservative have no meaning other than the fact that most liberals are in support of Democratic party platforms, and most conservatives support Republican party platforms. But for someone that looks at the terms liberal and conservative in the classical sense the words are confusing. Libertarians are the true liberals classically speaking, modern liberals are socialist for the most part, conservatives are closer to being an authoritarian libertarian hybrid if that can be comprehended. We need to stop using labels, or else describe what the meaning of our labels actually is. If liberal means being in support of big government then say that.... because if you look at the liberal tradition, at the classical liberal like Thomas Jefferson you'll find the exact opposite. He was a "liberal" but believed in extremely small government How can both be liberals, and yet hold diametrically opposed beliefs? Never just dismiss someone as a liberal or conservative. Say what it is that the believe.

right on. I agree totally. you are a moron if you believe either side is entirely right... or wrong. think for yourself....you may find that you are Liberal on some issues and conservative on others. That's a balanced human being.