This man rebelled against his Dad most of his young adult life!! If he was forced, why did he not go into Vietnam right away, instead of the Air Guard? I am assuming it was more 'honorable" to serve in Vietnam back then (I could be wrong)

Yes..Political aspirations may be a factor for joining the military but at the rate soldiers were dying in Vietnam, there was no guarantee that one would make it back safely. And that is the issue I have with those "attacking" Kerry's record.

They seem to imply that in the 4 months he served, he "made sure" he was not killed..
-So he could come back and run for Prez in 2004. He made sure the VC that shot him, got him in the thigh so he could come back and run for Prez in 2004.
- He told Rasmussen to jump in the water so he could pull him out so he could run for Prez in 2004.
- He told the VC he shot in the back that he had to do it (before he shot him) so he could receive a medal and come back so could run for Prez in 2004.

Every VV is has earned the right to use their service for whatever career they choose. Everyone on them. And we should acknowledge that and stop picking at their service, whether they went as a Journalist (GORE) or Infantryman.

I would also.

__________________
"George W. Bush surrounds himself with smart people the way a hole surrounds itself with a donut." —Dennis Miller

Really? Because I served, though not in combat. And if I got wounded three times and they offered me an out, I'd seriously consider taking it for fear my luck was running out. I might decide to stay, but nobody could say I hadn't done my part after three wounds.

In WW II they used to joke about the "million-dollar" wound, the one that was non-debilitating but still serious enough to get you sent home. Were those guys padding their resume? Were they unpatriotic? Of course not. They were human beings who wanted to live.

You can love your country and be willing to defend it and STILL not relish the possibility of dying, or go out of your way to court death.

Lincoln and FDR, had no military experience. Voters should understand that Kerry served and Bush did not. This should not, however, be the focal point of the election. Kerry goes on and on about his service (while at the same time poorly defining his candidacy) while Bush's attack dogs spew garbage like the Swift Boat vet ads.

It's sickening to me that such a tragic war is the highlight of this election. Present the facts to the voters and move on, please.

__________________
Proudly a "South Park Republican"

To the original poster!

Have you been asleep for the last 2 years?

You left wing nut cases started this hate campaign, & now you're getting a little of your own medicine back, & you're whinning about it.

We've seen Al Gore, the man you voted for, get up in front of the other "hate monger nut-cases", stating that George Bush lied about Iraq, & betrayed this country. We have Howard Dean stating just last week, that new intelligence was really old, & it was only for political gain to post a new alert on buildings in New York & New Jersey. We have John Kerry & John Edwards, both stating that "they" & this country were misled into war, during the DNC convention, & then yesterday, Kerry stating that, what "he knows today," he would have still voted to go to war in Iraq. We've seen President Bush being blamed, "alone" for 9/11. We've seen him criticized for spending 7 minutes at a school in Florida on 9/11. We've even seen him criticized for not being at the White House, while the Pentagon was under attack. We've heard all you nut-cases state that President Bush stole the election. Even after all of you know that those votes have been counted several times, & Al Gore has NEVER won. You still won't shut up. We've seen THOUSANDS of conspiracy theories, on everything from oil to corruption, to blame in the Abu Grad Prison Scandal. Two or more months of Abu Grad porn channel news. And this "has got to go to the top comments from the left." Meaning George Bush has to apologize for 12 members out of 150,000 members of the U. S army stationed in Iraq. We have had to deal with about 50 books on how Bush lied, the lies that Bush told, the liars of the lies telling the lies. And a new book out, on how to assassinate President Bush. You left wing nut-cases already have plans to disrupt the RNC convention in New York. However, no one disrupted your convention. We had about two months of how George Bush was AWOL from duty from the National Guard. John Kerry, NEVER spoke up & said stop it! In fact, he encouraged it. In fact, one of his campaign managers, tonight, just referred to George Bush as a COWARD for not enlisting in the regular army, versus the guard. Of course, this same campaign manager was all for Bill Clinton, who never served in any military unit. And then the ultimate. We have the Michael Moore, Farenheight 9/11 MOCUMENTARY,, propaganda film, movie & rock stars casting, often vulgar & outrageous untruths about President Bush. And all the while you nut-cases are applauding them.[

And you want US to feel sorry for you & JOHN KERRY? Not no, but HELL NO!

In fact, I am going to donate money to the Swift Boat Vets for the truth about John Kerry. One can donate at swiftvets.com

Good to know that for every left-wing nutcase, there's a right-wing nutcase there to cancel them out.

I joined b/c after 9/11 I felt that I needed to do my part. After I got in, I served for the guys that I ws in with. They are the ones I cared about.

-Demosthenes

__________________
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

KJS thinks that anyone who does not fall in lock step and marches like a robot to chanting "Kerry bad, Bush good' is left winger. I guess he must be correct. General Tommy Franks and John McCain said that Kerry served honorably. Yup left wingers I tell you.

I must be a left wing nut case because I believe one must speak up and point out the disgusting things that Ann Coulter said about Max Cleland.

Let’s see there must more left wing things that I believe in. Let’s list them:

01- Serving your country at time of war. Did that. Vietnam 1969. Got seriously wounded after six months. Got a Purple Heart. Wear it proudly when appropriate. That is really “left wing of me.
02- Believe that marriage should be defined as a union between a man and a woman. That’s left wing.
03- Believe that Bob Dole served his country as a patriot and has sponsored a fair amount of good legislation as a senator. That’s left wing.
04- Believe that Pat Buchanan was right that left wing social forces have declared war on our society. That’s left wing.
05- Believe that all illegal aliens should be deported back to their country of origin. . That’s left wing.
06- Believe that English should be the official language of our country. Yet I speak another language and believe that everyone has that same right. That’s left wing.
07- Believe that when a lie is told about a fellow veteran for political gain one should stand up and call that person or group on it even if it is your own party. That’s left wing.
08- Believe that for every right that we Americans enjoy under our constitution we have the responsibility to make sure that by exercising that right we do not infringe upon the rights of another American. That’s left wing.
You got me buddy, I must be a Left wing WACKO.

KJS thinks that anyone who does not fall in lock step and marches like a robot to chanting "Kerry bad, Bush good' is left winger. I guess he must be correct. General Tommy Franks and John McCain said that Kerry served honorably. Yup left wingers I tell you.

I must be a left wing nut case because I believe one must speak up and point out the disgusting things that Ann Coulter said about Max Cleland.

Let’s see there must more left wing things that I believe in. Let’s list them:

01- Serving your country at time of war. Did that. Vietnam 1969. Got seriously wounded after six months. Got a Purple Heart. Wear it proudly when appropriate. That is really “left wing of me.
02- Believe that marriage should be defined as a union between a man and a woman. That’s left wing.
03- Believe that Bob Dole served his country as a patriot and has sponsored a fair amount of good legislation as a senator. That’s left wing.
04- Believe that Pat Buchanan was right that left wing social forces have declared war on our society. That’s left wing.
05- Believe that all illegal aliens should be deported back to their country of origin. . That’s left wing.
06- Believe that English should be the official language of our country. Yet I speak another language and believe that everyone has that same right. That’s left wing.
07- Believe that when a lie is told about a fellow veteran for political gain one should stand up and call that person or group on it even if it is your own party. That’s left wing.
08- Believe that for every right that we Americans enjoy under our constitution we have the responsibility to make sure that by exercising that right we do not infringe upon the rights of another American. That’s left wing.
You got me buddy, I must be a Left wing WACKO.

This is blatantly untrue. Bush served in the National Guard, and was, in addtion, a qualified fighter pilot (a dangerous job under the best of circumstances). To disrespect his service in the National Guard is the same as disrespecting ALL National Guard vets, whether or not they served in a combat zone.


No doubt.


Well, the first part is definitely true. However, the Bush campaign has no association with Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. For example, you could call me one of "Bush's attack dogs" but I don't have any formal OR informal ties to the GOP or the Bush campaign. To imply that I do, or that the Swift Boat Vets do as well, is the same as tying MoveOn.Org with the DNC and Kerry. So please, let's dispense with the liberal hyprocisy. Please?


Agreed. Here are the facts, and some interesting analysis of what they portend.

Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry
by John E. O'Neill, Jerome R. Corsi

Product Details

* Hardcover: 256 pages
* Publisher: National Book Network; (August 15, 2004)
* Language: Published in English
* ISBN: 0895260174
* Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1


Editorial Reviews:
From the Publisher
Find out why John Kerry is Unfit for Command as told by the men who served with him
Unfit for Command reveals a John Kerry you don't know-the true John Kerry that his political image-makers are trying to hide. But the veterans who served with him know better, and in Unfit for Command, they tell their story, including:
* How all three of John Kerry's Purple Hearts were for minor injuries, easily treated with band-aids, not requiring a single hour of hospitalization
* How captured Americans were tortured in North Vietnamese prisons for not endorsing John Kerry's false testimony-before the United States Senate-about alleged American war crimes
* How John Kerry carried a typewriter and an 8-mm home movie camera with him to Vietnam so he could record his own exaggerated version of his war exploits and film staged reenactments of his "combat actions" to advance his political career
* Why John Kerry's photograph hangs in a place of honor in the Vietnamese communist "War Remnants Museum" in Saigon

Want to know the real John Kerry? Read Unfit for Command-and prepare to be shocked.

Link to book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books


Unfit for command?
By Tony Blankley
Published August 11, 2004
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I stayed up late last night and read from cover to cover the book "Unfit for Command -- Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry." An impartial reader (if there is still such a beast in this election season) would have to conclude that either the book is a pack of lies or John Kerry is in fact a reckless, lying man who misrepresented the facts in order to receive medals he didn't deserve, and is indeed unfit to command even a tug boat, let alone the United States military as president.

The book appears to be meticulously researched and reported. It is replete with copious footnotes, a detailed index and two appendices. First-hand witnesses are named and quoted verbatim to support each specific, shocking charge. Each charge of false heroics is logically presented. The authors quote the official Navy citation and then present the purported eyewitness testimony that refutes the official finding. The witnesses who are summoned forth are officers and men who served simultaneously with Mr. Kerry in Coastal Division 11 and purport to be eyewitnesses to the events in question.

And yet, there is another group of men, the sailors who served directly under John Kerry on the same boat with him -- his band of brothers. They have traveled around the country with Mr. Kerry and have vouched for his description of his heroic, able and selfless service to our country.

One of these groups of men are lying through their teeth. This is not a case of failed memories. In a few instances, it could be a case of honest differences of perception of events. But considering all the testimony and evidence, John Kerry is either Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. As of this moment there is about a 50-50 chance that we will elect, in the person of John Kerry, either a very fine man or a truly despicable man president of the United States.

Either group of men, if we knew nothing else, would seem to be credible, reliable witnesses. Both groups of men served honorably in Vietnam, gained many medals and have apparently lived respectable lives since then. Few if any of them have been politically active in the last 30 years.

The men making the charges are almost all of his fellow officers and the higher chain of command in Kerry's coastal Division 11. The book points out that on John Kerry's Web site he has a photo of himself and 19 fellow swift boat officers, taken while they were simultaneously serving in that unit. Of those 19 fellow officers, 11 have asked him to stop using their image with him. Of the remaining eight, two are deceased, four don't wish to be involved and one is not a supporter of Kerry but didn't have the opportunity to sign the letter calling for the photo to be taken off the Web site. Only one of the 19, Skip Barker, supports Mr. Kerry.

There has been some confusion about whether the witnesses against Kerry had an adequate view of his conduct, compared with the view of his supporters who were on his boat. The book explains that the swift boats usually moved in a pack of three or four on the same mission. They operated within yards of each other. Moreover, they all docked, bunked, ate and lived in the same camp.

If one compared their relations to an army company of men, the fellow junior officers who captained the tiny swift boats were the functional equivalent of squad leaders, each with their own handful of men under them. Squad leaders, operating on the same mission together, are in excellent positions to assess the performance of their fellow squad leaders. They are the ones covering each other's flanks. The book is filled with testimony of these men, describing what they claim they clearly saw John Kerry doing and not doing.

Of course, almost every presidential campaign has an outcropping of scandal charges. Usually it is by one or two people -- a woman who claimed she met the candidate in a bar, some political opponent from a long forgotten campaign reprieving his shopworn, uncorroborated calumny. If a book is involved in such charges, the opposing party usually finds a hack ghost-writer.

But this scandal charge is by more than 200 respectable former naval officers and men. The primary author, John O'Neill, first started publicly challenging Mr. Kerry more than 30 years ago on the Dick Cavett Show. The co-author, Jerome Corsi, is not a political hack, but a college friend of Mr. O'Neill, with a Ph.D. from Harvard and a distinguished writing career.[/b]

The book has the ring of sincerity to it, and the mark of careful research and writing. If they are not telling the truth, all these men have exposed themselves to financially ruinous libel actions by Mr. Kerry -- who has the private resources to prosecute such actions. Even as a public figure, he might well win such an action, if this book is the pack of lies the Kerry camp says it is.

If it is not a pack of lies, the nation needs to know that, too.

I would encourage some of the major voices of the non-conservative mainline media -- Tim Russert, Dan Rather, Leonard Downie Jr. of The Washington Post -- to do as I did. Spend an evening reading the book. If they are not struck by the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing picture it paints of John Kerry and the credibility of the presentation, forget about it. But if they judge it as I did, then let their consciences be their guide.

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200...0236-4377r.htm

__________________
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and my comrades in the prison camps in North Vietnam took torture to avoid saying. He sold us out."
- Paul Galanti, US P.O.W.