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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008, 08:28 PM
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JLB JLB is offline
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Originally Posted by p-did View Post
There are times to raise taxes, and times to lower them. It depends on the situation. If you kept lowering taxes forever, eventually we'd have no military or upkept roads. But if you overtax people, the burden may impact their productivity.
So the answer is to continue lowering taxes until revenues fall. That way the citizens do not have their productivity curtailed, and the government gets the maximum money in revenues.

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Originally Posted by p-did View Post
In general, most developed nations take around 30 to 40 percent from the higher brackets of income earners. To me, that seems fair enough, as long as the tax code is simple and everybody in your bracket is paying their full share.
"Fair" is when every man pays the same rate. Currently we have an unfair tax code which inordinately benefits the non-productive members of society.

Countries with tax rates of 40% are those who also have 10% plus unemployment, so there is no need to copy their failure.

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Originally Posted by p-did View Post
In the past, when this nation was below 30 percent, we were vulnerable to violent swings in the job market. After the last major crash in 1929, we put in a tax/spending program that never went away. And although it can be wasteful, it does stabilize the economy, proven by the fact that we haven't had a major recession since we switched to the 30 to 40 percent (for the higher brackets) taxing/spending model.
Yet now we have the lowest average unemployment rates of the the last three decades, so there goes another of your "theories".

We also cut taxes to get out of recessions, so it is common sense that lower tax rates do not lead to recessions, but helps to avoid them.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin-Talgar View Post
A man wants to be able to send Chuck Norris jokes to everyone in the world. He goes to the government, which likes the idea and therefore gives him money. This Chuck Norris joke delivery system is extremely successful.

A man wants to power things, like the afformentioned joke delivery system, with the power of the sun. He goes to the government, which likes the idea so therefore gives him money. This Solar power system is __________.

The analogy fails how? No-one, except you, has said that its Obama's ideas- hes just doling out the money.
Uh, the only joke here is your half-baked analogy.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by p-did View Post
When you say "overhead", who exactly is getting that piece? The government spends all the money (plus more with all the deficits spending), so not a dollar taxed is taken out of the economy. Every government worker or contracted company will spend the money at the same private enterprises as anybody else. Taxing does not make wealth magically disappear. It all is payed out to people who build our roads, defend our lands, and perform many other functions required for secure global business transactions.
What you don't grasp is that a dollar spent by the government is VERY often a dollar irrationally spent. Tax money spent EASILY makes wealth disappear - as in the failed energy boondoggles of the 1970s.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
What you don't grasp is that a dollar spent by the government is VERY often a dollar irrationally spent. Tax money spent EASILY makes wealth disappear - as in the failed energy boondoggles of the 1970s.
True, so we should focus on spending the money in ways that create wealth, such as top-notch infrastructure. The point is that our economy was very unstable before we, and all other developed nations, started taxing the top bracket at least 30 percent. So the idea that "tax cuts are always good" hold no water if history is taken into account. Tax cut's only help if the people who receiving the cut have zero stagnant wealth, meaning they will put their tax returns back into the their local economies. Billionaires typically don't need an extra couple of thousand, so given them a break will not change a thing (they already have plenty of wealth being withheld from the flow of the economy).

But back to the point: Obama's plan to put more money into the hands of those whose life it will impact most makes a lot of sense (more sense than putting it into a dead-end war). Obama, if president, is thinking in ways that will benefit us all.

While the GOP held both the White House and Congress, they expanded government more than any other group in the history of our federal government (so if big government means "liberal", these GOP politicians were the biggest liberals of all time).

Obama, whose emphasis is on using government sources in more useful ways, will use his speaking skills to put great political pressure on Congress to retract that wasted expansion, and reapply that money to areas that matter, such as infrastructure, health care, and things that benefit the people as a whole (by reducing the number of desperate people out there, which reduces crime, which in turn, helps all local businesses. The GOP created a lot of waste while they were in charge, and Obama will have a big job in cleaning it all up.

Last edited by p-did; 03-30-2008 at 09:09 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2008, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by p-did View Post
True, so we should focus on spending the money in ways that create wealth, such as top-notch infrastructure.
Your OP used a very broad definition of "infrastructure" - that's a word that to most people means such as roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, airports etc. If you got that word from the Obama campaign, then it's an equivocation that manipulates words by using the fact that most people support needed infrastucture (conventional definition) to get support for government boondoggles for the politically connected.

Quote:
The point is that our economy was very unstable before we, and all other developed nations, started taxing the top bracket at least 30 percent. So the idea that "tax cuts are always good" hold no water if history is taken into account.
Supply proof. Reagan's tax cuts launched one of the greatest economic booms in american history. Ireland created an economic miracle by capping corporate taxes at 10%.

Quote:
Tax cut's only help if the people who receiving the cut have zero stagnant wealth, meaning they will put their tax returns back into the their local economies. Billionaires typically don't need an extra couple of thousand, so given them a break will not change a thing (they already have plenty of wealth being withheld from the flow of the economy).
This is pure liberal propaganda. More affluent people invest money from tax breaks - this provides capital for new plants and equipment - I assure you they don't put it in tin cans in their back yard.

Quote:
But back to the point: Obama's plan to put more money into the hands of those whose life it will impact most makes a lot of sense (more sense than putting it into a dead-end war). Obama, if president, is thinking in ways that will benefit us all.
Your understanding of economics is naive.

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While the GOP held both the White House and Congress, they expanded government more than any other group in the history of our federal government (so if big government means "liberal", these GOP politicians were the biggest liberals of all time).
Yep, that's right. There are many things about Bush that makes him at least 50% liberal, I always got a laugh out of liberals calling him a "right winger" - he isn't even a conservative.

Quote:
Obama, whose emphasis is on using government sources in more useful ways, will use his speaking skills to put great political pressure on Congress to retract that wasted expansion, and reapply that money to areas that matter, such as infrastructure, health care, and things that benefit the people as a whole (by reducing the number of desperate people out there, which reduces crime, which in turn, helps all local businesses. The GOP created a lot of waste while they were in charge, and Obama will have a big job in cleaning it all up.
Obama isn't going to clean anything up. He has a bunch of advisers who are clearly using him to replace previous wasreful spending with new wasteful spending.
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Last edited by Blade; 03-30-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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