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Old 06-06-2008, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rodrigu3 View Post
I don't see how the Wright issue has any bearing on how affordable my health care will get.
so it's a matter of "what's in it for me and my family"?....regardless of anything else....it comes down to a matter of ...."which presidential candidate can get me and my family the most affordable healthcare?"

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Old 06-06-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Yeshua_Lives View Post
so it's a matter of "what's in it for me"?....regardless of anything else....it comes down to a matter of ...."which presidential candidate can get me the most affordable healthcare?"
Well, like I said, this was only one issue. I don't make up my mind solely on one part. But Obama gets points in my opinion on his approach to health care.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:11 AM
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He will get my vote, because we need a change from the Old Guard.

Sen. McCain was a part of the party that was in charge of Both houses of Congress and the WH for over 6yrs and we are seeing this country go downhill fast and they will tell you we are seeing our best days.

We need a president who is going to be diplomatic with other countries around the globe.

We need a president who can have dialogue with our enemies, as well as our allies. Dialogue does not mean appeasement. Dialogue is no more than what it is, dialogue.

We need a president who is going to truly respect our veterans and soldiers and give them the benefits they need not just lip service.

It is a disgrace of the examples that we saw at Walter Reed, Ft Bragg, etc and asking wounded soldiers who can't not finish out their commits due to injuries sustained in combat for signing bonuses back.

We need a president who can restore hope in America and inspire young americans to stand on the shoulders of the professors to see beyond their teachings.

There are many problems plaguing this country today, but with the right man on the job this great nation can rise up and solve those problems.


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Old 06-06-2008, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by f0ca1 View Post
I believe in moderation.

Obama is the moderate choice.

There was a time when McCain was a moderate, but then he lost his bid to an ideologue, Bush, and subsequently turned into a conservative ideologue.

This country needs to get it's priorities straight. We spend three times more federal dollars on police in Iraq, than police here at home.

And guess what? Crime has gone up.

We spend hundreds of billions of dollars on reconstructing Iraq, and guess what? Our bridges and roads and levies and dams are dilapidated.

The conservative wave came to shrink government; but the bastardized manifestation increases the size of government, while making government more ineffectual.

We need leadership that understands the government can't go in to debt for endless wars of choice.

We need a leader that puts our infrastructure over those of other countries.

We need a leader that reminds people there are things we expect from the government, and the government must do it.

We need a leader that puts the individual, and the public long-term interest, ahead of short term corporate interests.
what conservative idea did he compromise on? A moderate would not always vote The Dem line??

McCain is far from the conservatism I would want but he has crossed the aisle many times

I agree that priorities are messed upped

I do not see an increase in crime but concede it could be better

I agree Republicans not conservatives have become spenders and have increased government, I will betcha a case of your favorite beer Obama doesn't downsize the government

I agree on the infrastructure

I totally disagree the the government should be expected to do things when people have this expectation they sit and wait through a hurricane like a bunch of idiots

I agree individual rights are the most important , We will see on that one . I do not believe many politicians have thought of this lately , but I will be punished for success immediately , I resent this invasion of my personal rights , because I worked hard and studied the market I have to give it away??
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rodrigu3 View Post
I'm not very familiar with the benefits of single-payer. Is there a good website that touches on the pros and cons?
I'm not sure about websites.
Unfortunately this is one of those issues where I find myself in agreement with Michael Moore... but his movie on the subject is based more on emotional appeal and hijinks than on the real reasons.
Kucinich and Nader both back a single-payer policy. I'd imagine Ralph Nader's website has some description.
Basically single-payer is what conservatives call "socialized medicine". Nader rightly points out that it isn't. It's actually nationalization of health insurance. If we called it "socialized medicine" then we'd have to call the current system "insurance company-run medicine".
I know this is contentious to many... but I think insurance is exactly the kind of industry that should be nationalized if any (particularly when involving things that we deem should be universal).
Of course most single payer systems do not outlaw competition in insurance (and shouldn't). In Canada for instance, you can choose to pay for non-government insurance if you have problems with the government insurance.

That's not to say the Clinton-Obama type plan is worse than the current system... It would at least make insurance companies cover everyone (thus justifying the subsidies). And the main advantage is that it will not be as contentious as a single-payer system as it will be seen as "free market".
My main gripe is that it really isn't any more "free market" and shouldn't be claimed as such. And I think it will do little or nothing to curb administrative costs... resulting in us paying both taxes and premiums.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
I'm not sure about websites.
Unfortunately this is one of those issues where I find myself in agreement with Michael Moore... but his movie on the subject is based more on emotional appeal and hijinks than on the real reasons.
Kucinich and Nader both back a single-payer policy. I'd imagine Ralph Nader's website has some description.
Basically single-payer is what conservatives call "socialized medicine". Nader rightly points out that it isn't. It's actually nationalization of health insurance. If we called it "socialized medicine" then we'd have to call the current system "insurance company-run medicine".
I know this is contentious to many... but I think insurance is exactly the kind of industry that should be nationalized if any (particularly when involving things that we deem should be universal).
Of course most single payer systems do not outlaw competition in insurance (and shouldn't). In Canada for instance, you can choose to pay for non-government insurance if you have problems with the government insurance.

That's not to say the Clinton-Obama type plan is worse than the current system... It would at least make insurance companies cover everyone (thus justifying the subsidies). And the main advantage is that it will not be as contentious as a single-payer system as it will be seen as "free market".
My main gripe is that it really isn't any more "free market" and shouldn't be claimed as such. And I think it will do little or nothing to curb administrative costs... resulting in us paying both taxes and premiums.
Oh right, now I remember. I think I remember Obama in one debate saying that single-payer is the ideal, but that it would be difficult to get passed in this country.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
I'm not sure about websites.
Unfortunately this is one of those issues where I find myself in agreement with Michael Moore... but his movie on the subject is based more on emotional appeal and hijinks than on the real reasons.
Kucinich and Nader both back a single-payer policy. I'd imagine Ralph Nader's website has some description.
Basically single-payer is what conservatives call "socialized medicine". Nader rightly points out that it isn't. It's actually nationalization of health insurance. If we called it "socialized medicine" then we'd have to call the current system "insurance company-run medicine".
I know this is contentious to many... but I think insurance is exactly the kind of industry that should be nationalized if any (particularly when involving things that we deem should be universal).
Of course most single payer systems do not outlaw competition in insurance (and shouldn't). In Canada for instance, you can choose to pay for non-government insurance if you have problems with the government insurance.

That's not to say the Clinton-Obama type plan is worse than the current system... It would at least make insurance companies cover everyone (thus justifying the subsidies). And the main advantage is that it will not be as contentious as a single-payer system as it will be seen as "free market".
My main gripe is that it really isn't any more "free market" and shouldn't be claimed as such. And I think it will do little or nothing to curb administrative costs... resulting in us paying both taxes and premiums.
Let ask a couple of questions . You are proposing that the government take from private entities?
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by submarinepainter View Post
what conservative idea did he compromise on? A moderate would not always vote The Dem line??
He's worked with some of the most conservative senators to write the ethics reform bill..

there are other instances, too many to add here.


Quote:
McCain is far from the conservatism I would want but he has crossed the aisle many times
That could mean a lot of things; you could hyper religious, or you could be a libertarian, but if you liked Bush, you'll love McCain.


Quote:
I agree that priorities are messed upped

I do not see an increase in crime but concede it could be better
Check the stats...

Quote:
I agree Republicans not conservatives have become spenders and have increased government, I will betcha a case of your favorite beer Obama doesn't downsize the government
That's fine with me; as long as he pays for it, and he spends at home, not abroad.
Quote:
I agree on the infrastructure
Quote:
I totally disagree the the government should be expected to do things when people have this expectation they sit and wait through a hurricane like a bunch of idiots
If the government builds a levy to protect your city, it should be able to protect your city. The netherlands has an impentrable system of levies and dikes, because they saw how important it was.

We lose half a major city, and still we debate whether these things should be the government's responsibility.


Quote:
I agree individual rights are the most important , We will see on that one . I do not believe many politicians have thought of this lately , but I will be punished for success immediately , I resent this invasion of my personal rights , because I worked hard and studied the market I have to give it away??
Because you're an individual in America, you have to pay taxes. Most people get over that as a fact of life at an early age.

We can't just keep borrowing.

But, certainly the government needs a warrant to spy on individuals; and Bush/McCain thinks they don't.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by submarinepainter View Post
Let ask a couple of questions . You are proposing that the government take from private entities?
It would take only the customers.
Basically the government would enter the market with its own insurance company to which every citizen is allowed to enroll in, paid for out of taxes.
The insurance companies will not have anything taken, but their customer base will shrink. Many of them will have to move on to other businesses. There will be a niche market, however, for people who think the private companies will do them better than the government and who opt out of the universal health insurance.

Saying that this is "taking" from insurance companies is like claiming the "Fair"Tax is taking from CPAs.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:35 AM
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I'm voting for him because I trust him more. Simple as that.
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