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Old 07-01-2008, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DuH2 View Post
OH BS..





I'm waiting for the Obama speech on betraying the troops ignoring their sacrifices, making them surrender, and then sending them to Afghanistan to fight the same enemy..

He ever make that one..or we going to get a speech on Tupperware?
"The Same Enemy"???? In AFGHANISTAN???

Is the Taliban in Iraq? Are the people who bombed the WTC in Iraq? is OSAMA in Iraq?

Please explain how leaving Iraq now is "surrender." Please explain how pulling troops out of Iraq is "ignoring their sacrifices."

Go.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
Not true!
Someone who has no experience with the military is at a distinct disadvantage when leading during war time. That is just common sense, and the American public will agree with me in November!
A lot of people will probably agree with you... It does not change the fact that they are wrong.
Being in the military in and of itself is no evidence that a person understands war from the macro level or has the ability to do the job of president of the United States.
Maybe if he were a general, I'd think it would matter more.

But being that a soldier or mid-level officer does not have the same responsibilities and perspective as the president... I don't see the connection.
Other than the simplified: "Oh he was in war, so he must know war" mantra.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
A lot of people will probably agree with you... It does not change the fact that they are wrong.
Being in the military in and of itself is no evidence that a person understands war from the macro level or has the ability to do the job of president of the United States.
Maybe if he were a general, I'd think it would matter more.

But being that a soldier or mid-level officer does not have the same responsibilities and perspective as the president... I don't see the connection.
Other than the simplified: "Oh he was in war, so he must know war" mantra.
Not many people will agree with you, and you are still wrong!
Being a General means his understanding has been polluted by politics that enter the miltary ranks at that level! A ground level understanding of what works and doesn't work is far more beneficial! I see it every day in the corporate world, politically ambitious upper ranking guys and ladies desperately trying to come up with something new they can attach their names to and call a success, all the while ignoring past lessons learned about what works and doesn't!
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Last edited by Whaler17; 07-01-2008 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by hendrixpujols11 View Post
Obama rejected Clark's statement, so you can't even relate it to Obama.

Second of all, if you look at what he said instead of reading the headline you would see that he wasnt attacking anybody's military service at all. He said that what McCain did did not qualify him to be commander in chief. There are plenty of people who served in the military, even with an identical rank as McCain, but that does not mean they are qualified to be the commander in chief. He wasn't denouncing anybody's military service.
Clark is an Obama surrogate, who takes orders from who?
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by submarinepainter View Post
Clark is an Obama surrogate, who takes orders from who?
So, let's walk through the "logic" of that statement.

Clark is an Obama surrogate. Therefore, even though Obama publically spanked Clark for MAKING the statement, it's Obama's fault he MADE the statement... under direct orders from Obama... to make the statement he later spanked Clark for making.

My head hurts now.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
A lot of people will probably agree with you... It does not change the fact that they are wrong.
Being in the military in and of itself is no evidence that a person understands war from the macro level or has the ability to do the job of president of the United States.
Maybe if he were a general, I'd think it would matter more.

But being that a soldier or mid-level officer does not have the same responsibilities and perspective as the president... I don't see the connection.
Other than the simplified: "Oh he was in war, so he must know war" mantra.
and a community organizer has better experience?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by submarinepainter View Post
and a community organizer has better experience?
Let's examine the logic of this question.

McCain has military experience.

Obama has community organizing experience.

I guess it all depends on what you want from the next president...

Someone with experience in dropping bombs on people and killing them...

Or someone with experience in bringing people together for a common good.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
So, let's walk through the "logic" of that statement.

Clark is an Obama surrogate. Therefore, even though Obama publically spanked Clark for MAKING the statement, it's Obama's fault he MADE the statement... under direct orders from Obama... to make the statement he later spanked Clark for making.

My head hurts now.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
Let's examine the logic of this question.

McCain has military experience.
He is an American Hero

Obama has community organizing experience.
I get my community together once a year for a Tequila birthday party, does that make me Presidential?

I guess it all depends on what you want from the next president...

Someone with experience in dropping bombs on people and killing them...
Isn't that what Wesley Clark did.

Or someone with experience in bringing people together for a common good.
What did Obama accomplish. The Klan brought people together for their own commen good.
I do know his race relations are good in terms of how he accomodated Larry Sinclair
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
Being a General means his understanding has been polluted by politics that enter the miltary ranks at that level!!
And understanding how to make decisions from the macro perspective... Can't really downplay that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
A ground level understanding of what works and doesn't work is far more beneficial!!
From the ground point of view which loses the perspective of the whole. It can be useful when combined with a macro perspective (I'd imagine most generals have both), but detrimental when assumed to be all there is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
I see it every day in the corporate world, politically ambitious upper ranking guys and ladies desperately trying to come up with something new they can attach their names to and call a success, all the while ignoring past lessons learned about what works and doesn't!
Sure, management does that... primarily because they are focused on the big picture and large trends... which do not always translate well to local trends (I was in sales myself... It's hard not to notice that). Sometimes they could use a little advice from the ground.

But that said... a manager looking at the big picture has a much better understanding of how to run a big picture than a grunt.
Your observations about a particular store/location/battlefield/whatever might be quite apt and more in line with that situation than that of your manager/general... but I bet your manager/general has a better understanding of what's going on EVERYWHERE.
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