Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Elections & Campaigns


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 04:22 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 5,622
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 130,414
Default McCain Either Screws Up or Lies about Sunni Awakening/Surge Timeline

In an interview on CBS News, McCain told Katie Couric the reason the Sunni Awakening happened was because the Sunni shieks knew the Surge would protect them.

Quote:
Couric: Senator McCain, Sen. Obama says, while the increased number of U.S. troops contributed to increased security in Iraq, he also credits the Sunni awakening and the Shiite government going after militias. And says that there might have been improved security even without the surge. What's your response to that?

McCain: I don't know how you respond to something that is such a false depiction of what actually happened. Colonel McFarlane (phonetic) was contacted by one of the major Sunni sheiks. Because of the surge we were able to go out and protect that sheik and others. And it began the Anbar awakening. I mean, that's just a matter of history. Thanks to General Petraeus, our leadership, and the sacrifice of brave young Americans. I mean, to deny that their sacrifice didn't make possible the success of the surge in Iraq, I think, does a great disservice to young men and women who are serving and have sacrificed.

They were out there. They were protecting these sheiks. We had the Anbar awakening. We now have a government that's effective. We have a legal system that's working, although poorly. And we have progress on all fronts, including an incredible measure of security for the people of Iraq. There will still be attacks. Al Qaeda's not defeated. But the progress has been immense. And to not recognize that, and why it happened, and how it happened, I think is really quite a commentary.
The problem with that?

The Sunni Awakening preceded the Surge.

Quote:
First of all, it wasn't the surge alone that reduced violence in Iraq. Violence also fell because Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army to temporarily stand down. And violence also fell, due to a decision by Sunni tribal leaders to cease their insurgency against the "occupiers" and instead join U.S. forces in the fight against al-Qaeda. It's called the Sunni "Awakening."

The "Awakening" actually preceded the surge and was prompted, in part, by the indiscriminate terror of al Qaeda, which didn't shy away from killing Muslims. But it also was prompted by the Democratic Party's takeover of Congress and the rising sentiment for withdrawal. As Maj. Niel Smith and Col. Sean McFarland have written in Military Review, "A growing concern that the U.S. would leave Iraq and leave Sunnis defenseless against al-Qaeda and Iranian-supported militias made these younger [tribal] leaders open to our overtures." [Colin H. Kahl, "When to Leave Iraq," Foreign Affairs, July/August 2008, p. 152].
And this...

Quote:
February 2006: Muqtada al-Sadr orders an end to execution-style killings by Mahdi Army death squads.
August 2006: Sadr announces a broad ceasefire, which he has maintained ever since.

September 2006: The Sunni Awakening begins. Tribal leaders, first in Anbar and later in other provinces, start fighting back against al-Qaeda insurgents.

March 2007: The surge begins
A slip up? A lie? Which would be worse?

SIDE NOTE: CBS left that embarrassing part of the interiew on the cutting room floor. But they left it in the transcript. So, the media hates WHO???
__________________
Putting the partisan signature on hiatus until I get back. Then... WATCH OUT!!!

Last edited by The Jovial One; 07-22-2008 at 04:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 04:54 PM
alexg's Avatar
alexg alexg is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 442
usa us alabama
alexg is a glorious beacon of lightalexg is a glorious beacon of lightalexg is a glorious beacon of lightalexg is a glorious beacon of lightalexg is a glorious beacon of light
Credits: 2,710
Icon7 McCain sheds last few principles!

Odd thing is, I used to respect McCain. Unfortunately, now that he's running for the presidency, he seems to have shed all his principles and sold his soul to the Bush/Cheney/Rove neocons. Sad.

"Presidential ambition is a disease that can only be cured by embalming fluid."
John McCain

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/j...ain-quotes.htm
__________________
You know all that stuff you learned from listening to Rush Limbaugh and Bill ORielly? It's all a lie. Pass it on.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:00 PM
JLB's Avatar
JLB JLB is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,272
usa us florida
JLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 27,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
In an interview on CBS News, McCain told Katie Couric the reason the Sunni Awakening happened was because the Sunni shieks knew the Surge would protect them.



The problem with that?

The Sunni Awakening preceded the Surge.



And this...



A slip up? A lie? Which would be worse?

SIDE NOTE: CBS left that embarrassing part of the interiew on the cutting room floor. But they left it in the transcript. So, the media hates WHO???

I think you slipped up. I know you don't want to give our troops any credit, like Obama, and say that Al-Sadr won the Iraq War, but that isn't the way it happened.

McCain is saying the surge helped with the Anbar awakening, and indeed it did. There was still major fighting going oon in Anbar when the Surge happened.

From 2007:


Anbar's battlegrounds

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...bar_rising.php

Despite the progress in large swaths of Anbar province - from Fallujah in the east to Husaybah on the Syrian border, and Rutbah to the south - the regions north, south and east of Fallujah remain a battleground. The towns and cities of Amiriya, Ferris, Zaidon and Karma are the focal points of al Qaeda and allied Sunni insurgent's power bases in Anbar province.

The Amiriya/Ferris region has been the scene of intense battles between the Anbar Salvation Council and Iraqi and U.S. forces on one side, and al Qaeda and its allies on the other. Amiriya was the scene of two major battles between opposing forces in the month of March. "The Amiriya/Ferris region is typical Iraqi farmland, bound on one side by the river, and the other side by barren desert," said Specialist Alanko. "The region has been the scene of much fighting between the Anbar Salvation Council and al Qaeda in Iraq, and is home to a recent, ongoing push by US Army and Marine troops" to secure the area.

On March 2, over 300 al Qaeda attacked the the town of Amiriya in an attempt to assassinate a prominent leader of the Anbar Salvation Council. The leader of the Anbar Salvation Council was to attend the funeral of one of those killed in the February 24 suicide bombing against a mosque in Habbaniyah, where the cleric preached against al Qaeda. The Iraqi police in Amiriya held off the attack, radioed for backup from Iraqi Army, police and the Anbar Salvation Council. U.S. air support also engaged in fighting. At least 50 al Qaeda were killed and 80 captured in the largest battle in Anbar province this year.

On March 20, in the second major battle in Amiriya in less than three weeks, a force of over 100 al Qaeda clashed with the Anbar Salvation Council, backed by Iraqi Security Forces. Thirty-nine al Qaeda were killed and 7 were captured during the battle. Again, the target is believed to be a senior leader of the Anbar Salvation Council.

Zaidon is a town where Saddam Hussein allowed Islamist extremist to thrive during his time in power. Religious leaders preach hate and jihad, and provide the ideological underpinning for the jihad, according to a senior military intelligence analyst. "Zaidon is the canal-laced farmland north of the Euphrates on the south side of Fallujah," said Specialist Alanko. "Many of the insurgents holed up in Fallujah before the Army and Marines cleared the city in November of 2004 escaped across these same canals, and the area continues to be a problem to this day."

Perhaps the most insurgent infested region is Karma, where Task Force 145 - the hunter killer teams that target al Qaeda leaders and operatives - conduct near daily raids. "Karma was a nasty town when I started working in Fallujah, and if anything, it has gone downhill since," said Specialist Alanko. "More and larger bombs appear in the roads, and the faces in town have gone from indifferent to angry. Many AQI fighters have been killed or captured in the area, but it seems that, for now at least, Karma remains one of the hottest holdouts of the AQI insurgency."

Karma was the scene of the shoot down of a Marine Ch-46 helicopter in February. Capitan Coulson's company lost three soldiers in Karma after they attempted to recovery the helo. Several al Qaeda anti aircraft teams have been destroyed in the region. JD Johannes, an embedded independent journalist, witnessed a complex suicide attack on the Army outpost at OP Omar in early April.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:13 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 5,622
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 130,414
Default

I was in the military for nine years. How long were you in the military, JLB? I mean, when you weren't being the most feared poster on the Innernets and an investment analyst and a millionaire with a mansion and a yacht.

McCain said what he said.

Quote: "And it began the Anbar awakening."

And he either lied or was wrong.

Live with it.
__________________
Putting the partisan signature on hiatus until I get back. Then... WATCH OUT!!!

Last edited by The Jovial One; 07-22-2008 at 05:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:21 PM
MidwestMax's Avatar
MidwestMax MidwestMax is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,731
MidwestMax is a splendid one to beholdMidwestMax is a splendid one to beholdMidwestMax is a splendid one to beholdMidwestMax is a splendid one to beholdMidwestMax is a splendid one to beholdMidwestMax is a splendid one to beholdMidwestMax is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
I was in the military for nine years. How long were you in the military, JLB?
After this, let's find out whose dad could beat up the other dad.
__________________
Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:23 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 5,622
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 130,414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwestMax View Post
After this, let's find out whose dad could beat up the other dad.
My father is dead. But you already knew that, Tom.
__________________
Putting the partisan signature on hiatus until I get back. Then... WATCH OUT!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:36 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 5,622
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 130,414
Default

HuffPo has the story now. These are the same people who broke the "Rev. Wright" You Tube tape, so look for this to get some play now.


Quote:
One problem. The surge wasn't even announced until a few months after the Anbar Awakening. Via Spencer Ackerman, here is Colonel MacFarland explaining the Anbar Awakening to Pam Hass of UPI, on September 29, 2006. That would be almost four months before the President even announced the surge. Petraeus wasn't even in Iraq yet.
Quote:
This is not controversial history. It is history that anyone trying out for Commander and Chief must understand when there are 150,000 American troops stationed in Iraq. It is an absolutely essential element to the story of the past two years. YOU CANNOT GET THIS WRONG. Moreover, what is most disturbing is that according to McCain's inaccurate version of history, military force came first and solved all of our problems. If that is the lesson he takes from the Anbar Awakening, I am afraid it is the lesson he will apply to every other crisis he faces including, for example, Iran.

This is just incredibly disturbing. I have no choice but to conclude that John McCain has simply no idea what is actually happened and happening in Iraq.
__________________
Putting the partisan signature on hiatus until I get back. Then... WATCH OUT!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:40 PM
JLB's Avatar
JLB JLB is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,272
usa us florida
JLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond reputeJLB has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 27,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
I was in the military for nine years.
Really? Which country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
How long were you in the military, JLB?
The same amount of time Obama was. I guess I'm not qualified to be President either....

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
I mean, when you weren't being the most feared poster on the Innernets and an investment analyst and a millionaire with a mansion and a yacht.
I don't have a yacht. Never said I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
McCain said what he said.

Quote: "And it began the Anbar awakening."

And he either lied or was wrong.

Live with it.

Ther Sunni Awakening is now the Anbar Awakening, hmmm?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:44 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 5,622
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 130,414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB View Post
Really? Which country?

Ours. Protecting YOUR ass.


The same amount of time Obama was. I guess I'm not qualified to be President either....

Well, I would say YOU aren't. You gotta be at least 35.

I don't have a yacht. Never said I did.

Mmm hmm.



Ther Sunni Awakening is now the Anbar Awakening, hmmm?
Started as the Anbar Awakening, spread to the Sunni Awakening. Homework time, perhaps?
__________________
Putting the partisan signature on hiatus until I get back. Then... WATCH OUT!!!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:47 PM
giminy123 giminy123 is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 167
giminy123 has a spectacular aura aboutgiminy123 has a spectacular aura aboutgiminy123 has a spectacular aura about
Credits: 989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB View Post
The same amount of time Obama was. I guess I'm not qualified to be President either....
Since when did military experience qualify you to become president? Oh right. Never.

Last edited by giminy123; 07-22-2008 at 05:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
McCain Screws the Pooch on Iraq DemocratsBlog Political Blogs 0 07-21-2008 07:50 AM
McCain Lies About GI Bill He Opposed, Now Supports f0ca1 Elections & Campaigns 3 06-30-2008 09:52 AM
McCain Lies About Troop Levels f0ca1 United States 82 06-05-2008 07:25 AM
John McCain Screws Up His Foreign Policy Statement..Again [TheDemoMemo] KnowBlog Political Blogs 0 03-20-2008 08:00 PM
Bush Screws Veterans Again - Empty Promises or LIES BlueBlog Political Blogs 0 02-09-2008 07:42 AM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden